Deciding On Fair Play

[Teddy_Winn]

Why This Is Being Posted:

[*] Because 1 or more people have received unfair moderation action against them

[*] To ensure fairness for all and prevent incorrect punishment of those who played ethically

[*] To prevent unjust moderation action against anyone for any games in the future around FALSE claims of cheating or unethically boosting ELO...

If mods are not really good players in a specific game, they’re not qualified enough to decide whether or not cheating has really taken place in that game...

Mods (if they are not strong players themselves in a game) should get and (significantly value) the input of strong players in a game to decide whether or not 1 or more people have cheated in that specific game.

Weaker players who might not understand the game well could generate false reports saying a strong player(s) is cheating when that is not happening at all.

If too many weaker players who don’t understand a game send these reports to mods accusing a stronger player(s), it creates problems...

Especially if the mod then decides to severely punish 1 or 2 strong players who actually played fair and square.

Call To Action: If mods are not strong players in a game, get the input of the strongest possible players in a game to decide whether or not someone has cheated or boosted ELO unethically...before doling out punishment...

Corollary #1: Do not, (if you are a mod), severely punish 1 or more players for cheating or unethically boosting ELO in a game, if you are not a strong player in that game or have not received agreement from really strong players in a game that someone is playing unethically...

Corollary #2: All reports in the future about unethically boosting ELO or cheating should be backed by strong, comprehensive, + crystal clear evidence with agreement from strongest possible players in a game...Moreover, all of this evidence must be presented to the player suspected of cheating (or boosting ELO unethically) in complete and crystal clear detail...

[aesche]

https://imgflip.com/i/5yt0ff

[Teddy_Winn]

This is not funny...

I’m trying to say BGA severely punishes people who actually play fair but who might have been slandered by false reports of cheating or boosting ELO unethically.

This needs to be pointed out when it actually happens.

It would be fair to prevent this from happening in the future to anyone for ALL games.

[aesche]

No, that‘s not funny, that‘s right out ridiculous. BGA acting on cheaters is a joke as simply not existant, it‘s not even possible to report cheaters unless they are so dumb to play themselves. Most obvious cheaters remain in arena and elo leaderboards and steal the rewards from fair players. Instead, BGA simply disables arena and elo achievements for games where cheating is possible.

Tichu is the best example of all of them, how the offical BGA doesnt care the slightest.

If actually someone was punished, it certainly was for being bossy or rude.

[Teddy_Winn]

“it‘s not even possible to report cheaters unless they are so dumb to play themselves”

Mods are not qualified to really decide whether someone is actually playing against themselves to boost ELO in a specific game UNLESS they are strong players in that game....

Just looking at 1 or more accounts and saying these accounts all come from the same person does not cut it in my book...Especially if you don’t really know the game well enough to play it at a high level...

[NeanderthalMan]

No, that‘s not funny, that‘s right out ridiculous. BGA acting on cheaters is a joke as simply not existant, it‘s not even possible to report cheaters unless they are so dumb to play themselves. Most obvious cheaters remain in arena and elo leaderboards and steal the rewards from fair players. Instead, BGA simply disables arena and elo achievements for games where cheating is possible.

Tichu is the best example of all of them, how the offical BGA doesnt care the slightest.

If actually someone was punished, it certainly was for being bossy or rude.

Actually, an established top-10 Tichu partnership was moderated and their ELO reset because one of their opponents claimed they were cheating in the chat, deliberately timed out, and submitted a report asserting that they were one person using two accounts (all other reporting types such as, playing as a team to help each other win/kingmaking, aren't allowed). This was not verified by the mods in any way and is demonstrably false.

This is an issue because (1) it's unfair and false, (2) actual cheating partnerships—as you noted—continue to play in normal and arena modes with impunity, (3) analysis of the games played by the moderated pair show no indicators of collusion, unlike literally dozens and dozens of games played by others; and (4) it puts other noncheaters who play with one or more frequent or exclusive partners at risk of similar moderation based on unsupported conjecture or vindictiveness. It's rare that users even know how to replay games much less do so to confirm or disconfirm their suspicions before reporting or red thumbing.

[aesche]

Ok, if it actually hit a truly fair partnership, that would be pretty sad indeed (though actually wouldnt be fitting that badly to my side of the coin).

But seeing that they pretty much never do anything against cheaters in Tichu, over many months already, with so many obvious cheaters present and presented openly by you, it‘s highly unlikely that they did something in this case simply based on some whiney report, and without further reasons. How do you want to know what mods verify and what not?

Finally, while landing on your list usually happens for good reasons, NOT landing on your list does not allow the conclusion that it‘s a fair partnership, for many reasons.

[Teddy_Winn]

“How do you want to know what mods verify and what not?”

The player who knows they were wrongfully accused of cheating or boosting ELO by playing against oneself deserves to see all the proof and a clear explanation. That’s the only way they can construct a rational counterargument to disprove such a claim. What’s not acceptable is just to tell someone they are cheating or boosting ELO wrongfully using multiple accounts without any clear proof or evidence...and then close the case.

Ideally, in such a report, you will at least reference all the games where questionable activity took place, point out any specific moments in all games where wonky stuff happened, and then transition into a rational conclusion that makes sense. If only we lived in an ideal world, because BGA mods are not doing what I just described.

If I’m a mod, receiving numerous vague messages that some partnership or person is cheating or has multiple accounts amounts to nothing without comprehensive proof/evidence. I can’t use these messages to justify taking action against a person or group of people. This is especially the case if I don’t have a lot of experience with the game under question...because I’d be even more ill equipped to verify such claims...

And...If multiple accounts are used by the same person and/or to boost ELO, prove how and why...

I understand that some cheat detection methods remain effective by being kept confidential (referring to chess.com)...but even if that is the case, they should be vetted and analyzed by other strong players within the specific game in question.

“Finally, while landing on your list usually happens for good reasons, NOT landing on your list does not allow the conclusion that it‘s a fair partnership, for many reasons.”

Not landing on the list more likely means a person is not cheating or has not cheated enough to merit much attention because their ELO is not high enough. I’ll tell you this...once a person reaches top 10 in terms of ELO for Tichu, the majority (if not all of their games) will come under close scrutiny by other top players. If there’s even any trace of cheating in games, those top players will make it a point to tell other top players and/or mods...Plus, those suspected of cheating will receive red thumbs and thus, will find it hard to join tables, besides being mentioned on the forum of Tichu cheaters...

[NeanderthalMan]

Ok, if it actually hit a truly fair partnership, that would be pretty sad indeed (though actually wouldnt be fitting that badly to my side of the coin).

But seeing that they pretty much never do anything against cheaters in Tichu, over many months already, with so many obvious cheaters present and presented openly by you, it‘s highly unlikely that they did something in this case simply based on some whiney report, and without further reasons. How do you want to know what mods verify and what not?

Finally, while landing on your list usually happens for good reasons, NOT landing on your list does not allow the conclusion that it‘s a fair partnership, for many reasons.

The players were moderated for being one player using two accounts to boost ELO, something I know to be false because I know the affected players. No one has claimed anything based on what users are on or not on the list. That's a straw man.

Yes, we'd all like the mods to be proactive and penalize the cheaters but don't want noncheaters wrongly targeted.

[aesche]

There is about 1 post every week with someone complaining about supposedly unjust moderation.

They all have in common that the moderated people always claim to be innocent (while they usually are not). And that they are ignored by officials, or locked with the comment that ranting in the forum is not the way how to contest a moderation that is seen as inappropriate.

With the sound this post already started in, it hardly will proceed differently, maybe even with a warning or moderation on top.