About war in Ukraine

[dschingis27]

The reports I read (in the Guardian's live news feed) said that they were most if not all people who'd been paid to go or otherwise offered incentives - and some that the reporters spoke to said they did not actually support the war.

Never trust anything that comes out of a totalitarian state, especially not expression's of the "people's will" - they're almost always stage managed.

This is very anecdotal what you are saying, again statistically majority of Russians support the war. Even if some of them are paid, they still had no issues attending basically a pro war rally.

You claim that what journalists report is anecdotal evidence, yet you claim right in the next sentence that the participants "had no issues" just out of your head. The world is not as simple as you want to see it...

[Pushkiin]

The reports I read (in the Guardian's live news feed) said that they were most if not all people who'd been paid to go or otherwise offered incentives - and some that the reporters spoke to said they did not actually support the war.

Never trust anything that comes out of a totalitarian state, especially not expression's of the "people's will" - they're almost always stage managed.

This is very anecdotal what you are saying, again statistically majority of Russians support the war. Even if some of them are paid, they still had no issues attending basically a pro war rally.

You claim that what journalists report is anecdotal evidence, yet you claim right in the next sentence that the participants "had no issues" just out of your head. The world is not as simple as you want to see it...

I'm not saying that it is simple, the evidence is anecdotal, since the journalists only interviewed folks who left early, but as you can see in the footage the who stadium was full with with people for the duration of the event. I don't understand this insistence that majority of Russians are not supporting this war, please show me actual statistical evidence. Everything that has been published so far indicates that between 55-75% of Russian support the war, 15-20% are indifferent, the rest opposite it. Why is it so hard to believe that majority of Russians support this war?

[robinzig]

The reports I read (in the Guardian's live news feed) said that they were most if not all people who'd been paid to go or otherwise offered incentives - and some that the reporters spoke to said they did not actually support the war.

Never trust anything that comes out of a totalitarian state, especially not expression's of the "people's will" - they're almost always stage managed.

This is very anecdotal what you are saying, again statistically majority of Russians support the war. Even if some of them are paid, they still had no issues attending basically a pro war rally.

From what I read, most of them were bused in without any idea of where they were being taken and why.

In any case, while it's probably true that a majority of Russians support this aggression, that's only because they are being continuously fed with propaganda and denied alternative sources of news. I don't blame ordinary Russians for any of this.

[dschingis27]

I insisted or refuted nothing you write about.

I simply insist that you should not make bold claims like "they had no issues" that can't be backed up by evidence. Especially if you urge to follow evidence at the same time.

[Pushkiin]

I insisted or refuted nothing you write about.

I simply insist that you should not make bold claims like "they had no issues" that can't be backed up by evidence. Especially if you urge to follow evidence at the same time.

Of course we don't know the reasons why each person attended the war war rally. My point is that why the actions of few Russians who left early are being amplified as evidence that Russias don't support the war or that they are forced to support the war.

Also think about this statistics, UN estimates that roughly one-fourth of all Ukrainians have been forced to abandon their homes because of Russia’s invasion. Almost 10 million refugees and IDPs. Another 12 million people are caught in active war zones but cannot escape. And we are arguing whether BGA should ban Russian flag at least.

Point regarding ordinary Russians above. I'm sorry if majority of Russians support the war, "ordinary" Russians also support the war. People are susceptible and are influenced by propaganda, but that should not make them unaccountable for their beliefs.

[ABY1977]

I have read all your messages with interest. I am a representative of the aggressor country, the players from which you propose to remove from the site. But here I am against the war, and most of my entourage, too. 71 percent of Russians who support the war are state propaganda data from their own polls. Of those who really support the war, most are old people who watch Russian TV. They don't play board games. If you ban Russian players here, then they can come here via VPN. Banning won't solve anything. But the banner against the war on the main page is already an excellent solution that should make those who support the war come to terms with such a position, or leave. // About today's rally: this is a fake propaganda event. All participants were brought by buses - these are government employees who were given a day off. The entrance to the stadium was on tickets that were issued at work. Previously, this stadium was assembled in the same way for other purposes.

[Pushkiin]

I have read all your messages with interest. I am a representative of the aggressor country, the players from which you propose to remove from the site. But here I am against the war, and most of my entourage, too. 71 percent of Russians who support the war are state propaganda data from their own polls. Of those who really support the war, most are old people who watch Russian TV. They don't play board games. If you ban Russian players here, then they can come here via VPN. Banning won't solve anything. But the banner against the war on the main page is already an excellent solution that should make those who support the war come to terms with such a position, or leave. // About today's rally: this is a fake propaganda event. All participants were brought by buses - these are government employees who were given a day off. The entrance to the stadium was on tickets that were issued at work. Previously, this stadium was assembled in the same way for other purposes.

There were independent polls as well and the support so far oscillated between 55-75%. This is a fact. To say that only minority supports the war in Russia is equivalent to perpetuate Russian narrative aimed at people from other countries in order to undermine sanctions and actions against Russia and Russian people and to say that the real victims are ordinary Russians. My biggest concern with your post is that you claim to be anti-war, but not ready to support any significant action on BGA even such as banning Russian flag. If Russian folks who are against the war are not ready to give up their flag at this time, you can imagine how genuine their support of Ukraine really is. You say that there is nothing at stake, but that's not true either. At stake is the reputation of your country and the kind of access you are allowed to have for entertainment, while Ukrainians are dying or are displaced.

There are several actions BGA can do:

Modest proposal: Banning Russian flags on BGA
Middle proposal: Banning Russians from BGA tournaments and Arena games
Last resort proposal with 100,000 civilians deaths: Banning Russians from BGA (I'm saying this since for many of you the severity of the conflict is clear not significant enough)

[ABY1977]

I have read all your messages with interest. I am a representative of the aggressor country, the players from which you propose to remove from the site. But here I am against the war, and most of my entourage, too. 71 percent of Russians who support the war are state propaganda data from their own polls. Of those who really support the war, most are old people who watch Russian TV. They don't play board games. If you ban Russian players here, then they can come here via VPN. Banning won't solve anything. But the banner against the war on the main page is already an excellent solution that should make those who support the war come to terms with such a position, or leave. // About today's rally: this is a fake propaganda event. All participants were brought by buses - these are government employees who were given a day off. The entrance to the stadium was on tickets that were issued at work. Previously, this stadium was assembled in the same way for other purposes.

There were independent polls as well and the support so far oscillated between 55-75%. This is a fact. To say that only minority supports the war in Russia is equivalent to perpetuate Russian narrative aimed at people from other countries in order to undermine sanctions and actions against Russia and Russian people and to say that the real victims are ordinary Russians. My biggest concern with your post is that you claim to be anti-war, but not ready to support any significant action on BGA even such as banning Russian flag. If Russian folks who are against the war are not ready to give up their flag at this time, you can imagine how genuine their support of Ukraine really is. You say that there is nothing at stake, but that's not true either. At stake is the reputation of your country and the kind of access you are allowed to have for entertainment, while Ukrainians are dying or are displaced.

There are several actions BGA can do:

Modest proposal: Banning Russian flags on BGA
Middle proposal: Banning Russians from BGA tournaments and Arena games
Last resort proposal with 100,000 civilians deaths: Banning Russians from BGA (I'm saying this since for many of you the severity of the conflict is clear not significant enough)

I did not claim that the war is supported by a minority of Russians. Perhaps 60% of them, but it is impossible to say and calculate it for sure now. However, I am sure that there are definitely a minority of users who support the war on this site, and they will suffer from the strict prohibitions that you propose. This is not a "russian" narrative, but from me personally. Only, if we accept your point of view and imagine that sanctions are imposed not against ordinary Russians, but against officials or Russians in general, then how can the imposition of sanctions on this site affect officials or the entire population of Russia? Do you want me to advocate banning the Russian flag? What's the point? If you don't see this flag on this site, will the political problem be resolved faster? Will you be comfortable with the idea that Russians will remain on the site, who will hide under other flags, but will continue (in your opinion) to support the war in their majority? I am not an administrator of BGA to discuss any measures, but all your three proposals are ineffective, in the same way as Putin's elite will continue to live comfortably, receiving luxury goods through other countries. I proposed an anti-war banner, and this, in my opinion, is quite sufficient action in the current situation. However, your aggressive rhetoric leads to the fact that players are already starting to refuse to play with russian players. You are not there looking for and chasing enemies.

[MaksimkaDADADA]

Держусь нейтралитета, потому-что узнать правду очень сложно. Не нашёл прям материалов, чтобы 100 процентно убедится, что это правда. Даже Зеленскому не могу верить, после того как он наградил посмертно людей на острове Змеиный, хотя там все выжили. А люди тут и вправду верят, что если ограничить людей, заставить их стыдится своей родины, то они сразу пойдут свергать Путина. Смешно.

[ABY1977]

Держусь нейтралитета, потому-что узнать правду очень сложно. Не нашёл прям материалов, чтобы 100 процентно убедится, что это правда. Даже Зеленскому не могу верить, после того как он наградил посмертно людей на острове Змеиный, хотя там все выжили. А люди тут и вправду верят, что если ограничить людей, заставить их стыдится своей родины, то они сразу пойдут свергать Путина. Смешно.

Вам недостаточно того, что люди погибают тысячами, чтобы выступать за прекращение войны? С этим же вы, надеюсь, согласны, что люди гибнут? И это не родина там воюет, а путинский режим. Насчёт Змеиного: там людей взяли в плен и никто не знал что они живы. // Макдональдс и Кока-кола уходят с российского рынка не потому что хотят чтобы из-за их ухода люди пошли свергать Путина. Бренды уходят, потому что потребители из других стран недовольны, что те получают прибыль в России, тем самым поддерживая её экономику. В случае сайта БГА речь идёт о схожей форме недовольства, но обстоятельства здесь совсем другие, потому что я могу указать что я не из России, и продолжать пользоваться сайтом, а вот Биг-Мак купить из Москвы я уже не могу. Но если просто здесь запретить российский флаг, то пострадает культурная коммуникация, которая происходит между игроками. К тому же это будет странный жест, потому что тут ссылаются на прецеденты из мира спорта, но там официальные государственные федерации и делегации спортсменов.