rude communities/no longer play

[kytbell]

So I just had a negative experience in Kingdom Builder that has me not wanting to play the game with people I don't know again: just needlessly aggressive play, rudeness in chat, etc. It has me thinking of other games I've discovered on BGA & fallen in love with but don't really play anymore because of similar experiences. Yes, I red-thumb and report as needed, but it's sad. Carcassonne and Bang immediately come to mind. On the other hand, some games like Welcome To are just soooo friendly and nice.

I get why Bang might attract overly rude "bro" types (you're shooting at each other after all), but what is it about certain other games that just bring out the "still live in my mother's basement" type of players?

I'm not saying it has to be sunshine and cupcakes all the time, but at least be decent to your fellow human beings? Any other games those of us who only want to play with civil adults should avoid?

[ahyangyi]

I feel the thing you are looking for is "interaction".

All three games you mentioned have a rating of 3 in interaction on BGA. Which I personally don't agree with (I would give Kingdom Builder a 2.5, Carcassonne a 3 and Bang a 4), but I think the rating has correlated with your experience quite well. And on the other side, Welcome To has an interaction rating of 1.

Simply put, "interaction" is the ability one player might play aggressively against another player.

And when you are playing against a bunch of random players, there has to be some chance where one player makes a move that hurts one opponent a lot, while bringing little to no benefit for themselves.

Example of a low-interaction game: Dominion, which is from the same designer as Kingdom Builder, has significantly lower "interaction" than the latter. If Dominion were to happen on BGA, I would bet it will have an "interaction" rating of 1.

Solutions?

Going by the above hypothesis, I can think of a few:

• play low-interaction/cooperative games. There are enough good games in the low interaction category, I think.

• Play with only 1 opponent, so that aggressiveness is just accepted as part of the game, and there's no unfair feeling of being randomly targeted by a clueless player.

• Play with only strong opponents. In my experience aggressive play often happens because people just don't know how to play better (targeting one player in a 4 player game is usually a losing move), so in theory better opponents would tend to be less aggressive.

• Play multiple games, so that there's less attachment to a particular session.

Actually, I think you are not alone. There is a reason why most of the high interaction games are usually played with 2 players (Bang is a special case though, can't play it with so few people)

( My post hasn't covered the rude chat thing... because I don't have any theory about it. )

[dschingis27]

I also noticed quite some aggression in team games. For instance Skat has you play 2 vs 1 and people are really bad in calmly accepting if their team member loses the game for them.

At the end of the day, it is the internet and unfortunately you find aggression everywhere. BGA is overall still one of the nicer places online.

[kytbell]

Yeah, and technically Bang IS a team game. But I see ahyangyi's broader point. In Welcome To, for example, there is nothing you can do to interfere with the other player's game: You have to concentrate on your own. Another is Railroad Ink. But it's no fun to basically only stick to games you could sort of really just play by yourself.

What I have found with Carcassone is that there's a group of what I call "Carcassone bros" who always mess up roads, cities, etc -- not because it actually helps them win but because it makes it harder for other players to do so. I know some would argue this is a "legit" strategy, but not really. I've noticed with Carcassone, for the most part, these players typically identify as male and are Italian or Eastern European, so I've wondered if it's a cultural thing.

I encounter this less on Kingdom Builder, but it's starting to be often enough to cause concern. I had a game today, for ex, where I thought "Carcassone bro." This player even had a name linking him to a political, anti-woman group in the US and every move he made wasn't about him winning, rather about keeping me from being able to do something. Then when I tried to mutually concede, he got aggressive in chat, saying "learn how to play." Then when I quit, he kept sending more negative messages over chat. I red thumbed and reported, but it messes with your day. Personally, I come on here to relax, take down time, and have fun. And when you just get attacked, this doesn't happen.

I agree that BGA is a wonderful place. I enjoy it. But some of these games, wow, people need to calm down. I do think what ahyangyi said, though, about the amount of interaction required is probably spot on.

Any other commonalities anyone's noticed, thanks?

[Cheery Dog]

Defensive play is something that will help win. If you don't enjoy people playing for victory, then it is better to only play with people you know.

All games can be won via defence. Scores may be lower than if all sides just allow full out attack, but the victory is the part you want.

If you can't deal with people blocking you from achieving your goals, then you need to sidestep them with alternate plays.

[Meeplelowda]

What I have found with Carcassone is that there's a group of what I call "Carcassone bros" who always mess up roads, cities, etc -- not because it actually helps them win but because it makes it harder for other players to do so.

Making it harder for other players to win helps you win. The thing that matters is the relative change in score, not simply the value of what you alone score. If a person has one move that gains them 6 points but allows their opponent 10 points, and a different move that gains them 0 points but denies their opponent the 10-point move, denying the 10-point move is helping you win. In Carcassonne, placing pieces so that either the opponent cannot complete the structure or has to share the points if it is completed can help you win depending on the game state.

[voriki]

Making it harder for other players to win helps you win.

Winning = trying to not lose.

[ufm]

Yeah, and technically Bang IS a team game. But I see ahyangyi's broader point. In Welcome To, for example, there is nothing you can do to interfere with the other player's game: You have to concentrate on your own. Another is Railroad Ink. But it's no fun to basically only stick to games you could sort of really just play by yourself.

What I have found with Carcassone is that there's a group of what I call "Carcassone bros" who always mess up roads, cities, etc -- not because it actually helps them win but because it makes it harder for other players to do so. I know some would argue this is a "legit" strategy, but not really.

So, you don't enjoy solitaire-style games but hate winning strategies of games with player interaction... What are you even trying to say?

I've noticed with Carcassone, for the most part, these players typically identify as male and are Italian or Eastern European, so I've wondered if it's a cultural thing.

I found you've been moderated yesterday. YOU need to calm down, I guess.

[Meeplelowda]

So, you don't enjoy solitaire-style games but hate winning strategies of games with player interaction... What are you even trying to say?

Kinda inconsistent, eh? I think they only like winning strategies that they have decreed are acceptable, and anyone who disagrees apparently had a bad upbringing (see the comment about having been raised better in this thread).

[TheSmolDog]

"needlessly aggressive play"

When I started out in Carcassone, I hated it when players blocked me from completing my cities, jumped in on my cities, etc. I found it very rude and I'd choose not to play with them again.

Then I got better at it, and now I also do those things

Now when somebody does it to me it elicits a loud groan from me, and I might call that player a few choice words in the privacy of my own head . It's just a part of these games sometimes/often/more usually with the more experienced players.