About war in Ukraine

[nairobiny]

I don't even know what to say.

In such situations, generally it's OK to say nothing.

[Pushkiin]

So what is won by banning the Russian flag, that is so important that you keep pushing for still, after 3 weeks of a clear statement? The only gain I can see is that you can‘t spit your hate at them anymore. Ok, fair, or we just keep banning those that can‘t behave, on a worldwide board gaming site!

And in that go we also ban the American flag, because they invaded lots of countries, and the Swiss flag because we launder every dictators money, and the French because and and and? That makes no sense.

We can discuss the sense and problematics of states and nationalisms generally if you want, then I‘d be on board much more, but as long as we are not over these, you hardly will stop that someone identifies as Russian even if he likely won‘t agree with the actions of their dictator and some close circle around him, just as I‘m sickened by my governments behaviour with the sanctions against this circle where it actually matters, opposite to banning a flag here, but still simply am Swiss, without any patriotic feelings.

You can keep claiming your opinions as facts and deny everything else for as long as you want, that just will be leading nowhere but frustration and more hate.

Also, you contradict yourself: „Sanctions against regular people work“ vs „support for Putin increases“. I see. It‘s also very shortsighted to claim some poll numbers as true and independent, in a country where free opinion is massively limited and sanctioned.

Finally: Please go on about collective responsibility. I‘m sure it will be very helpful to your point and insightful about your opinions.

First of all sanctions do work, there is no contradiction. If you compare Russian position at the beginning of the negotiation talks and now, you will see a big difference. If United States or Switzerland were bombing cities and start a groundless war, I would support the banning of their flag as well. The discussion of the banning of the Russian flag and the discussion of the collective responsibility of Russian people for the war (even at minimal level) is important because even on this site most of Russian folks blamed everything on Putin and his circle. This discussion is important, since even right now most Russian folks show no recognition of how they are implicated in this war whether they want this or not, especially considering that the conflict has been going on for 8 years.

I'm not sure why you are trying to provoke me by calling my points hateful. The actions that are suggested have been implemented by many organization and companies for strategic reasons to stop the war and they working. What's hateful, however, is the killing of Ukrainian children and people by Russian army supported by the majority of Russian people. You can obfuscate all you want and say that Russian people do not support this war, and that we can't depend on any statistics, but this is your choice, but so far we only have seen evidence from different polls that the majority of Russian people do support the war.

Like you said, you are Swiss without any patriotic feelings, but it's easy not be patriotic when your cites are not bombarded, when your relatives and friends are not displace or killed by Russian army. I wonder if your option will change if you were personally affected by the war. Again, I encourage you also reflect on your own background and privileges and examine your beliefs in terms of where you are coming from when trying to understand this war.

[donbettyr]

@Pushkiin:
I don't want you to have stress each time you see the Russian flag in my account. I tried to emigrate to Canada but I failed to do so, and we are not fellow citizens with you. I am still in Russia, but I am ready to change the flag to another one. Please tell me which one I should put on, and I will do so.

[BOUNTY1]

Мне как гражданке России очень больно от того ,что в данный момент происходит между Украиной и Россией .
Я простая жительница России и я против войны во всех её проявлениях , и убедительно прошу игроков данной платформы не писать гадости гражданам России и тем у кого стоит русский флаг , мы любим свою страну и не перестанем её любить

[Roman Kushnir]

Dear players of the world,

We are shocked, like everyone else, by Russia's invasion of Ukraine, by the war and all of its consequences. As Europeans who suffered from the war in recent history we would like to address our first words to all the victims and those who are suffering from this tragedy: our hearts are with you.

As a gaming service, we believe that a great part of our mission is to build bridges between people all over the world. It makes us particularly sad to see the world tearing people apart and building walls.

The Asmodee Group decided to donate 500 000€ to humanitarian associations (International Committee of the Red Cross and Children’s Village) on behalf of all entities at Asmodee, including BGA, as we firmly believe that we have to support the Ukrainian people at this time.

Furthermore, our group will organize first needs goods logistics for refugees through our local organizations in Poland and in Germany.

Last, the Asmodee group is sending a large numbers of board games to refugee camps in neighboring Ukrainian countries, through humanitarian associations, to offer moments of distraction to families that had to flee their country.

During this difficult time, we can only hope that entertainment and culture will continue to be driving forces for people to share happy moments together.

Concerning BGA specifically, we see no reason to punish Russian/ Belarusian players as we cannot know if they support the actions of their leaders. We would like to continue to connect people using board games, even over the battlefront lines, because there are humans with good feelings on both sides, and if everyone is aware of that it makes the world better.

We decided to remove all penalties received by players geolocalized in Ukraine for turn based games in which they were unable to play since Feb 24th. If you are having trouble with any additional account issues on BGA caused by this war, please contact us using the contact form so we can help.

This statement will be displayed as a link on BGA homepage for all players from Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine.

Despite the situation, we encourage you to play with the whole world and to keep BGA a peaceful place to play.

The BGA team

russia is a country terrorist, which kill more then 100 children in Ukraine, murder numerous of civilian people, make violence in occupied cities and vilages, genocide in Mariupol and other places. Any support of russia means terrorism and threat of safe in Europe. Don`t see any reason to support a russian people, they has blood on their hands. It is not about only Putler it is about all russians.

[voriki]

russia is a country terrorist, which kill more then 100 children in Ukraine, murder numerous of civilian people, make violence in occupied cities and vilages, genocide in Mariupol and other places. Any support of russia means terrorism and threat of safe in Europe. Don`t see any reason to support a russian people, they has blood on their hands. It is not about only Putler it is about all russians.

Did you even read what some Russian players here have responded? They do not support the actions of their government and still you say you see no reason to support Russian people? You are now spitting in the faces of the same people that share the same views.

[KongKing123]

So I reached out to BGA to get a better sense of how they made their decision. Below is our exchange.

[...]

I don't even know what to say. There is no transparency in terms of how they made their decision, what information was consulted, so this makes it very difficult to understand where are they coming from. Based on their tone alone, it's clear that they don't take the whole thing very seriously.

It's hard to imagine a more tone-deaf response.

They literally put more effort into their April fools joke than into this whole situation. It truly is a pathetic display of PR.

[...]

Did you even read what some Russian players here have responded? They do not support the actions of their government and still you say you see no reason to support Russian people? You are now spitting in the faces of the same people that share the same views.

The people responding here represent a minority. A very significant amount of Russians support Putin; this is confirmed by independent pollsters, even when taking self-censorship bias into account: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2022 ... n-ukraine/

[Savama]

I haven’t had possibility to read this topic for several days due to the internet problems. I see that many of you so far don’t fully realize that today’s russism is worse than nazism. You don’t know much about mindless murders, looting, raping, torturing, killing innocent animals, shooting paramedics and all the possible crimes that “ordinary russians” are committing right now in Ukraine, in 2022.

And right now there’s no use to show you tons of photos or repost stories of people who managed to survive from the hell russists organized in some Ukrainian cities and villages. You simply won’t believe that and I can’t judge you because your civilized minds are protecting themselves and don’t wanna accept such horrible things. It’s better to say things like it’s all war propaganda or everything is not so straightforward. If I were you I would do the same. Well, you can have a glimpse here https://twitter.com/dw_russian/status/1 ... 10534?s=21 It’s censored, so nothing very shocking.

It’s hard to admit that one nation wants to completely destroy another nation in XXI century. You can hide that simple truth behind any kind of euphemism but it won’t help. Just think about the numbers. After the 36th days of a full scale war in Eastern Europe at least 10.5 mln people have been displaced from their homes and lost their jobs. At least 770 schools and kindergartens have been damaged, 75 completely destroyed. 117 hospitals damaged. About 900 residential buildings destroyed in Kharkiv only. 144 children died. At least 6 big granaries were destroyed. More than 1000 rockets were shelled on Ukraine from russian and some of them from bielorussian territory. That’s what we surely know so far and all these numbers are constantly growing. It’s open information.

For all of you having the luxury to discuss the impact of russian TV-state propaganda on their people or “ordinary russian’s” accessibility to the objective facts, I can only say that the reality is far more worse that you can imagine. Right now I’m living in a black & white world and don’t have time for noble theorizing. Just imagine that you have to wake up (like it was today) to the sound of sirens at 3:50 am, take your bag with your most valuable stuff and run for the shelter. And sit there not knowing what and who will wait you outside after the alarm is over. I’m lucky enough to have a shelter from rockets and food to eat, many people don’t. Believe me, if you experience such a thing it will change your way of thinking.

As for russian players here, let me remind you about collective responsibility that soviet union was to accuse ALL the germans in 1945. I know that some of you don’t support your country for starting a war. I’m sorry for you but collective responsibility will catch you all. All the rest I’ve already said in my previous posts in this topic.

I’ve been on BGA from the 2013. I don’t feel I have the right to ask for banning russians flags (or even russian players) here. But I don’t wanna see them either because I’ve seen enough crimes committed under this flag. Being a guest on this site it’s easier for me to leave it for awhile, though BGA was like a peaceful place for me. Many thanks for all the people (and their countries), companies that support Ukraine and Ukrainians in any possible way.

PS. Everything I said is my personal experience. I don’t have the desire to break all the russian propaganda myths about “nazies in Ukraine destroying their own cities and citizens” or “Ukraine army shelling Donbas (eastern Ukraine) for 8 years from 2014” and so on. You’re smart people here, you will find out (or deduce) the truth yourselves.

PPS. The 3 hours alarm is over.

[dschingis27]

Collective responsibility is the most stupid thing I have ever heard of. And you don't need to deeply think about it or theorize much. It is just stupid and simple to blame people solely based on their country of origin.

I am not sure why you have to choose all russians as your enemy. It's something that you make up. (And that statement does not deny that majority of Russians support the war.) I can fully understand that you go through tremendously horrible times but why on earth do you blame it automatically on all russians? There are also mothers and children in Russia and e.g. some mothers need to raise three children. Why would they go on an anti-war demo that would just put their family at risk but probably achieves nothing?

As soon as you say "they" are evil and "they" need to be punished when "they" includes millions of people, you will always be perceived as hateful. (Again, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't do anything but not all sanctions are equal.)

If you really want to change things for the better you'd rather support the few anti-Putin people in Russia, rather than punishing them.

[voriki]

Edit: i misquoted someone because of editing, fixed the name. Apologies for confusion.

Did you even read what some Russian players here have responded? They do not support the actions of their government and still you say you see no reason to support Russian people? You are now spitting in the faces of the same people that share the same views.

The people responding here represent a minority. A very significant amount of Russians support Putin; this is confirmed by independent pollsters, even when taking self-censorship bias into account: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2022 ... n-ukraine/

Good to know that it's okay - according to you - to discriminate and prosecute minorities.