Action day laborer but no food!

[stern_hb]

In the game #255026323 move #287 I just didn't get the 2 food with the day laborer action (in the constellation of house builder and clay pit). Should be an error, right?

LG Torsten

[RicardoRix]

Another player has building tycoon.

[Tisaac]

Not a bug, check my answer on your report please.

[stern_hb]

Hi,

thanks ... but for me is the right order ...

1st - 2 food
2st - 3 clay (Lehmkuhle)
3st - Häuslebauer
4st - Baulöwe (Tycoon)

its right ... after that the

5st water worker with the reed ...


Or what do you mean?

Best regards

Torsten

[Tisaac]

Hi,

thanks ... but for me is the right order ...

1st - 2 food
2st - 3 clay (Lehmkuhle)
3st - Häuslebauer
4st - Baulöwe (Tycoon)

its right ... after that the

5st water worker with the reed ...


Or what do you mean?

Best regards

Torsten

Sorry but that's wrong. According to the rules, cards triggered by placing a farmer are always resolved before the action granted by the action space.

[bananasplay]

Sorry but that's wrong. According to the rules, cards triggered by placing a farmer are always resolved before the action granted by the action space.

I must have missed this in the rules, and conducting a Find on "action space" just now in both the rules and appendix didn't help. What page will I find this on and in which document? Thanks in advance!

[Lumin_S]

Sorry but that's wrong. According to the rules, cards triggered by placing a farmer are always resolved before the action granted by the action space.

I must have missed this in the rules, and conducting a Find on "action space" just now in both the rules and appendix didn't help. What page will I find this on and in which document? Thanks in advance!

Top of appendix pg. 5, unfortunately the consequence of card effect timing is not very obvious here but pay attention to the word "then"

Placing a person: “Placing a person” and “occupying an action space with a person” means taking a person from your house and moving it onto an action space. This does not include taking the actions provided by the action space. “Using an action space”, however, always means first placing a person, then taking at least one action provided by the action space or taking a replacement action (allowed by a card you played).

So the "using" of the action space is simultaneous with placing the person, and then, after placing, the player takes an action from the action space.

[bananasplay]

Top of appendix pg. 5, unfortunately the consequence of card effect timing is not very obvious here but pay attention to the word "then"

Placing a person: “Placing a person” and “occupying an action space with a person” means taking a person from your house and moving it onto an action space. This does not include taking the actions provided by the action space. “Using an action space”, however, always means first placing a person, then taking at least one action provided by the action space or taking a replacement action (allowed by a card you played).

So the "using" of the action space is simultaneous with placing the person, and then, after placing, the player takes an action from the action space.

Thanks very kindly for your thorough response—the page reference, the quotation, and your clarification—all extremely helpful!

I actually did read that section (and many others) but because I didn't see anything explicitly referring to "card effects" or the like in these sections, they didn't seem applicable to me. Now, thanks to your clarification in particular, I realize that I also need to consider the specific text on cards to see which refer to "placing a person", or "using space X", or the like in order to be more aware of any potential timing issues.

This new understanding that you've given me suggests that certain cards may not be implemented correctly here, such as Field Watchman, which I used in a recent game:

Each time you use the Grain Seeds action space, you can also plow 1 field.

So, to "use" the space, one would have to place a person and take the action provided by the space (i.e., get a grain), prior to being able to plow the field, correct?

Thanks again in advance for any further clarification or confirmation you might offer!

[Lumin_S]

So, to "use" the space, one would have to place a person and take the action provided by the space (i.e., get a grain), prior to being able to plow the field, correct?

Thanks again in advance for any further clarification or confirmation you might offer!

I can definitely see where you're coming from here. Is "use" the entire duration of placing and taking actions? If I were the publisher I might have gone with that interpretation, but from what I've heard from the publisher & developers, the publisher ruled the other way, with the idea that:

1) "when you use" = "when you place"
2) "then" is a timing that comes afterwards, where the time of 1) has passed, so effects are constrained to placement time

[bananasplay]

So, to "use" the space, one would have to place a person and take the action provided by the space (i.e., get a grain), prior to being able to plow the field, correct?

Thanks again in advance for any further clarification or confirmation you might offer!

I can definitely see where you're coming from here. Is "use" the entire duration of placing and taking actions? If I were the publisher I might have gone with that interpretation, but from what I've heard from the publisher & developers, the publisher ruled the other way, with the idea that:

1) "when you use" = "when you place"
2) "then" is a timing that comes afterwards, where the time of 1) has passed, so effects are constrained to placement time

Thanks again. Now my mind is blown. After careful reading of the excerpt you gave in your previous post (and after confirming that I see the same wording in the PDF that I downloaded, assuming that the latter is current), all the distinctions seemed clear to me; I'll quote from the rules again:

“Placing a person” and “occupying an action space with a person” means taking a person from your house and moving it onto an action space. This does not include taking the actions provided by the action space.

(Bold added by me.)

...such that "placing a person" = "only X, not Y"

...and then the rules continue:

“Using an action space”, however, always means first placing a person, then taking at least one action provided by the action space [...]

The "however" above pretty clearly indicates a distinction between "using an action space" and the previously defined "placing a person", such that "using an action space" means "first X, then Y" in totality—it's part of the same sentence, even. So, to put it differently, and to answer your question above, yes, "use" is the entire duration of placing and taking actions.

But now you're saying that the publisher has ruled this:

1) "when you use" = "when you place"

...such that there is no distinction between "when you use" and "when you place"; both now mean "only X".

So, yeah, mind blown—why have two different terms for the same thing? Why bother to use "however" when the term "using an action space" is introduced. They should have said this in the rules:

“Placing a person” and “occupying an action space with a person” and "using an action space" all mean taking a person from your house and moving it onto an action space. These do not include taking the actions provided by the action space. ...but they didn't do this; that's not what the rulebook (yes, technically the appendix) says.

I hope I've articulated myself clearly here. This situation strongly strikes me as one where the publisher has issued a ruling that is in direct contradiction to the rulebook. It's not that this ruling is an alternative interpretation that I merely dislike but can live with; it's that this one they have issued does not make sense to me in light of the rulebook's own phrasing. :-/

Do you know if the publisher has issued this ruling publicly anywhere? Or are you simply privy to private communications from the publisher and developers that I'm not? Thanks once more!