Consistently last player in nearly every game

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morgenish
Posts: 2
Joined: 09 July 2020, 09:17

Consistently last player in nearly every game

Post by morgenish »

I've been keeping track for about a week now and about 75% of the time I am last in every single game no matter what type. Sometimes that doesn't effect the outcome of a game, but a lot of times it does. This can't be mere coincidence as it has actually been something I've noticed for months and months. Even my friends mention it when I'm playing with them. I'd like to find out why I'm consistently last.

It's just incredibly frustrating and it seems like that can't just be a coincidence.
RobertBr
Posts: 667
Joined: 08 July 2016, 15:57

Re: Consistently last player in nearly every game

Post by RobertBr »

morgenish wrote: 29 July 2022, 21:52 I've been keeping track for about a week now and about 75% of the time I am last in every single game ... it has actually been something I've noticed for months and months. Even my friends mention it when I'm playing with them. I'd like to find out why I'm consistently last.
Is this a serious question or a parody of the weird fringe conspiracy theories that sprout every now and then about dice rolls?

Because if you are consistently coming last in a competitive activity there is a very obvious reason - you are not as good at the activity as the other people you are competing with.
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robinzig
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Joined: 11 February 2021, 18:23

Re: Consistently last player in nearly every game

Post by robinzig »

RobertBr wrote: 29 July 2022, 23:25
morgenish wrote: 29 July 2022, 21:52 I've been keeping track for about a week now and about 75% of the time I am last in every single game ... it has actually been something I've noticed for months and months. Even my friends mention it when I'm playing with them. I'd like to find out why I'm consistently last.
Is this a serious question or a parody of the weird fringe conspiracy theories that sprout every now and then about dice rolls?

Because if you are consistently coming last in a competitive activity there is a very obvious reason - you are not as good at the activity as the other people you are competing with.
I think you've misunderstood the statement - they don't mean they come last in the game (else they wouldn't say "sometimes that doesn't effect the outcome of a game"). They mean they're consistently (according to them, anyway) being placed last in the initial turn order.

Which is almost certainly either confirmation bias (they notice whenever they're last but don't on the more frequent occasions when they aren't), or a genuinely poor - but expected in the long term - run. No reason to assume any conspiracy (it always amuses me when individual users suggest the BGA algorithms are somehow biased against them in particular).
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Shobu
Posts: 585
Joined: 04 January 2020, 04:14

Re: Consistently last player in nearly every game

Post by Shobu »

the statement is a big confusing, i also understood it as RobertBr :lol:
morgenish
Posts: 2
Joined: 09 July 2020, 09:17

Re: Consistently last player in nearly every game

Post by morgenish »

I attempted to make it clear. I don't mean that I lose the game. I mean that I am placed as the last spot to play each round.

I don't think there's some huge conspiracy and I'm not just being a poor sport. I pay attention to when I'm not last and like I said, I've been keeping track of every single game in the last few days. So... thanks for thinking i'm an idiot or a jerk but that's not the case. I was wondering how it's possible that if it's completely random that I am last *way* more often than I'm not. So... I guess this was the wrong place to find actual discussion for this question. There's nowhere for me to contact BoardGameArena support so I was left with this. Lesson learned.
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Romain672
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Joined: 05 April 2016, 13:53

Re: Consistently last player in nearly every game

Post by Romain672 »

morgenish wrote: 30 July 2022, 01:12 I attempted to make it clear. I don't mean that I lose the game. I mean that I am placed as the last spot to play each round.

I don't think there's some huge conspiracy and I'm not just being a poor sport. I pay attention to when I'm not last and like I said, I've been keeping track of every single game in the last few days. So... thanks for thinking i'm an idiot or a jerk but that's not the case. I was wondering how it's possible that if it's completely random that I am last *way* more often than I'm not. So... I guess this was the wrong place to find actual discussion for this question. There's nowhere for me to contact BoardGameArena support so I was left with this. Lesson learned.
This kind of post is recrurent.
People think that X is weird. So they report it in the forum. It's either ignored, or people who know how work statistiques check it, and 99% of the time, nothing is weird. Just the perception of the random of the person who make the post isn't good.

I suggest you to do that: from now on, just start from scratch, and count the number of time you are last in the game. That should be normal. If it's not, please count them and report it again here :D

Examples:
https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=118441
https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25463
https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26265
https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26333
The last post of all those is <48hours.
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Zozoken
Posts: 68
Joined: 14 September 2016, 19:42

Re: Consistently last player in nearly every game

Post by Zozoken »

After reading this thread I was curious how often morgenish started games last. Considering morgenish has played over 6,000 games on this site, I felt it was worth the time to look at. I looked at all the games played this month. This is the data I compiled. Long post incoming!

First of all, morgenish plays a lot of 2P games and no doubt this was included in the observations. So I separated these. There were two 4P games played this month (and morgenish went first in both!) and the other 49 games were 3P. For simplicity, I treated the 4P games as 3P and compiled the following data:
1st, 2nd, 3rd starting position
Glow: 11, 5, 15
Kingdom Builder: 4, 1, 2
Splendor: 2, 2, 4
Azul: 1, 0, 0
Tokaido: 0, 0, 1
CuBirds: 0, 1, 2

Going first in Glow: 35% (within expectations)
Going second in Glow: 16% (33% expected)
Going third in Glow: 48% (33% expected)

Going first in total: 18/51 = 35% (within expectations)
Going second in total: 9/51 = 18% (33% expected)
Going third in total: 24/51 = 47% (33% expected)
For the sake of completeness, here's the order from most recent to least recent:
last, last, last (3x streak), middle, last, last, last (3x streak), middle, last, middle, first (in a 4p game!), middle, last, first, last, first, first, first (3x streak), last, first, last, last, last (3x streak), middle, middle, first, first, first (3x streak), last, last, last, last (4x streak), first, middle, last, first, first, last, first, middle, first (in a 4p game!), first, first (3x streak), last, middle, last, last, first, last, middle, first, last
As for 2P games, I was only able to look at the last 136 games due to reaching the limit to the amount of replays I can watch. So here's the data on the last 136 head-to-head games:
Azul: 25, 28
Kingdom Builder: 16, 19
CuBirds: 12, 13
Just Desserts: 4, 3
Glow: 5, 7
Patchwork: 0, 4

Percentage of games going first:
Azul: 47% (within expectations)
Kingdom Builder: 46% (within expectations)
CuBirds: 48% (within expectations)
In total: 46% (within expectations)
The sample size is small, I admit, but there's enough to illustrate what's going on. This data explains why morgenish feels like there's some sort of bug that makes it more likely to go last. Especially if 2P games were taken into consideration. It seems the real anomaly is not going second in multiplayer games this month! But I'm sure that will even out within the next few months. Or might have already evened out if previous months had a streak of a lot of times going second.
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skoki
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Joined: 01 February 2022, 19:09

Re: Consistently last player in nearly every game

Post by skoki »

Good job Zozoken
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Jest Phulin
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Joined: 08 July 2013, 21:50

Re: Consistently last player in nearly every game

Post by Jest Phulin »

morgenish wrote: 29 July 2022, 21:52 I've been keeping track for about a week now and about 75% of the time I am last
According to the data Zozoken provided, you were nowhere near 75% in being last. But statements like this are why people are quick to discount any claims of something being off. "I'm absolutely sure this is the case, even though I am providing no data to support it" will tend to have people attack the claimant.

Additionally, rare events do happen. A week's worth of games out of 6,000 is not a significant sample size. If a fair coin were tossed 100 times, it would actually be odd for a streak of 5 heads or 5 tails NOT to appear. But the forums are often flooded with "I noticed over the last 10 tosses I had 8 heads, 5 of them in a row" posts. Thanks go to Romain672 for pointing out a few of those.

So, please, if you want to be taken seriously, post the data of every game you have played in the last "about a week" and what your turn order was. Your claim cannot move successfully forward until that happens.
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Meeplelowda
Posts: 3878
Joined: 14 March 2020, 10:31

Re: Consistently last player in nearly every game

Post by Meeplelowda »

Jest Phulin wrote: 30 July 2022, 05:39So, please, if you want to be taken seriously, post the data of every game you have played in the last "about a week" and what your turn order was. Your claim cannot move successfully forward until that happens.
Such demanding standards, wanting data instead of someone's feelings that something is off based on memory. I mean, collecting data actually requires doing work. You want people to do that?
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