Doesn't scale

Forum rules
Please DO NOT POST BUGS on this forum. Please report (and vote) bugs on : https://boardgamearena.com/#!bugs

Which Innovation BGA game would you enjoy playing more?

The Innovation BGA game, in the same card legibility that's existed for years, but Without the expansions.
6
35%
The Innovation BGA game that includes the expansions (which seems to just absolutely Require the difficult card legibility on the BGA implementation of it).
7
41%
A "fork" set where there are Two, Separate, games of Innovation on BGA: One of the Innovation "classic" of recent years, One of the Innovation "with expansions"
4
24%
 
Total votes: 17

User avatar
Sloth-DMV
Posts: 10
Joined: 16 April 2020, 00:45

Doesn't scale

Post by Sloth-DMV »

Innovation on BGA used to be so enjoyable for me. For the past few years, I've played thousands of games of it. Innovation is (was) THE reason why I pay for BGA subscription. Why I referred others to BGA. Why I also pay for two additional BGA subscriptions for my kids.
But now my FAVORITE game has become tedious, opposite of enjoyable. Now, as of the past week, I just don't play it anymore.
The why is incredibly simple: most of the card texts don't scale.

Attached are three real life examples (from an Ubuntu laptop at 1920x1080 resolution I've played BGA Innovation on for many years):

-> Screenshot, at 80% Firefox browser zoom: This is the same zoom level I've played this game enjoyably for years, because on this all of the cards, draw piles, opponents' score piles, etc, fit the screen. Yet card text is mercilessly, brutally unreadable now. And I wear glasses, good glasses. It used to be so easy to read. Good times, fun times, used to be had.

-> Screenshot, at 90% Firefox browser zoom: At this zoom, if you have more than 5 cards in hand then the opponents' score piles are off the screen, but the tradeoff is beside the point: even from 80% increased to 90% zoom there's not much noticeable improvement in the readability of the card text.

-> Screenshot, at 100% Firefox browser zoom: At this zoom, perhaps SOME text is slightly workable but only on SOME cards... like the cards with Only a "non-demand" text... but not the "I DEMAND" cards and the cards with multiple caption boxes... Forget about it, it's a one-way ticket to the eye doctor.

Why can't Innovation be "forked" to two BGA games. One could be "Innovation (base)" with the card graphics from before last week aka for the past few years, the other "Innovation (includes expansions, with compatible card styles/legibility work-in-progress)" et cetera.
Attachments
80percentFirefoxZoom.jpg
80percentFirefoxZoom.jpg (302.85 KiB) Viewed 770 times
90percentFirefoxZoom.jpg
90percentFirefoxZoom.jpg (284.37 KiB) Viewed 770 times
100percentFirefoxZoom.jpg
100percentFirefoxZoom.jpg (326.2 KiB) Viewed 770 times
User avatar
idum
Posts: 42
Joined: 09 October 2011, 16:34

Re: Doesn't scale

Post by idum »

I suppose that options about graphics are not questionable anymore. Who knows? game editor's edict, compatibility with new future expansions (even if i don't think boardgame will be expanded anymore), dark bga owner plan for the glory of myopia god.
It is so evident that this implementation is not enjoyable, but well here we are.
No more Innovation :( my preferred bga game.
User avatar
Sloth-DMV
Posts: 10
Joined: 16 April 2020, 00:45

Re: Doesn't scale

Post by Sloth-DMV »

In response to the comment on "Latest Update" in the main commentary for Innovation game updates:
Micah Stairs We just reverted the font back to what it was before our major release. Please tell us if this made things better or worse for you!
15 hours ago

My response: I really appreciate your attempting to redress the visual discomfort/legibility/readability. However, please examine this latest screenshot. I'm comparing apples-to-apples in the screenshot: In the UpperLeft of the screencap is today's Firefox80percentBrowserZoom2022-07-28noon view and in the LowerRight overlayed is the equal 1:1 view taken previously of the Firefox80percentBrowserZoom2022-07-20.png
There's a slight improvement in the sentence positioning, but still there's no change in the legibility/readability of the text/fonts themselves = there's no improvement in the font scaling..
Aka there's been no change to the easy to read Size of the fonts, to the easy to read Size the fonts were previously displaying in the "previous card font version" that existed for many years, for which they displayed beautifully at the same Firefox80percentBrowserZoom (at my laptop's resolution, all the elements of the game display all in the same one screen).
Attachments
UpperLeftFirefox80percentZoom2022-07-28noon_LowerRightFirefox80percentZoom2022-07-20.jpg
UpperLeftFirefox80percentZoom2022-07-28noon_LowerRightFirefox80percentZoom2022-07-20.jpg (292.75 KiB) Viewed 673 times
User avatar
Micah Stairs
Posts: 122
Joined: 18 November 2020, 22:33

Re: Doesn't scale

Post by Micah Stairs »

Thanks for your feedback! We have some ideas for how we might be able to fix this. I'll start digging into this right now.

To address your idea of forking the game into two different versions, this is an interesting idea, and if this suggestion had come up during the alpha, we might have been able to make that happen. However, it's no longer feasible since that would not be a backwards-compatible change. Regardless, our development team does not have the capacity to maintain two different versions of the same game. We'd rather direct our (unpaid) time towards making both the base and expansions better for everyone!
User avatar
Micah Stairs
Posts: 122
Joined: 18 November 2020, 22:33

Re: Doesn't scale

Post by Micah Stairs »

Alright, can you test it again and see if the changes I just deployed improve things for you! Thanks for your help in restoring the game to its original glory.
User avatar
Sloth-DMV
Posts: 10
Joined: 16 April 2020, 00:45

Re: Doesn't scale

Post by Sloth-DMV »

Again, appreciate your continued engagement Micah Stairs. (Weird, I posted a reply to you yesterday evening, for some reason it's not showing here. So I'm replying again now..) First, closed and reopened browser, relogged into BGA, force-refreshed the browser page... Then: here's a screencap from late in the day on 2022-07-29 in upper-left, with 2022-07-20 in lower right. Both are in the same 80pct Firefox zoom. Please take a look at the screencap to see what is and isn't different still (you have to either open it in a different tab/window, or download it to a viewer and display at 100pct in order to see it at the 1920x1080 resolution of my laptop monitor). I can see that, as of 29th, there is a change in the font typeface (at least for the card titles), but the card body font is no different in font-size. What if you changed the font-size larger by at least 1 pt? If it requires a slight increase in the constraining "text box size" on the cards, then so be it.
Attachments
UpLeftFirefox80pctZoom2022-07-29_LowRightFirefox80pctZoom2022-07-20.jpg
UpLeftFirefox80pctZoom2022-07-29_LowRightFirefox80pctZoom2022-07-20.jpg (295.16 KiB) Viewed 604 times
GeraldineMerida
Posts: 358
Joined: 15 December 2020, 07:27

Re: Doesn't scale

Post by GeraldineMerida »

Micah Stairs wrote: 29 July 2022, 01:51
To address your idea of forking the game into two different versions, this is an interesting idea, and if this suggestion had come up during the alpha, we might have been able to make that happen. However, it's no longer feasible since that would not be a backwards-compatible change. Regardless, our development team does not have the capacity to maintain two different versions of the same game. We'd rather direct our (unpaid) time towards making both the base and expansions better for everyone!
I understand that you have put a lot of unpaid time into this and are disappointed by the less-than-favourable response, and that you have now minimised some of the readability issues you caused with your changes, but to say that you are 'making things better for everyone' seems a bit of a misrepresentation, given how many very active players on here are telling you that they hate the changes, even to the point of no longer playing here. The new graphics are just really ugly to so many of us.
User avatar
Sloth-DMV
Posts: 10
Joined: 16 April 2020, 00:45

Re: Doesn't scale

Post by Sloth-DMV »

Micah Stairs, to add: I can (for just myself), achieve a lot of what I'm advocating here by "changing the default settings of my Firefox browser with respect to fonts"... in the way I mean is that I could (in Firefox browser settings, applicable to ALL webpages not just BGA)...
  • CHECK the toggle for "Zoom text only"
and/or
  • UNcheck the toggle for "Allow pages to choose their own fonts, instead of your selections above"....
but...
  • 1. That (browser-side override) it is kind of advanced for most end-users, and hard to necessarily explain how to achieve for the various end-users' browsers, let alone changing the settings in between their BGA Innovation gaming sessions, vs other things they do using their browser where they'd prefer the "default" browser settings with respect to font behavior...
  • 2. It's really only a way for fixing "just me" - fixing one browser's view with respect to the font-size in Innovation game session, by deliberately "ignoring" the font-size you (on the server-side) have set (as the Innovation game developer).
In short, it would still be preferable if you could see if you could just tweak up the server-side requested font-size for the Innovation game session (especially with respect to the card body element's font-size) by perhaps just one increment.

If I knew in which particular HTML frame etc that element (for font-size) was in, I'd even be able (with source view) know how to say even more precisely the code element for the font-size I'd specifically say "please increase the integer there to" (x value, etc).
Attachments
Firefox-browser-override-options-possible_2022-07-30 13-15-37.jpg
Firefox-browser-override-options-possible_2022-07-30 13-15-37.jpg (59.63 KiB) Viewed 594 times
User avatar
Yorgad
Posts: 131
Joined: 21 October 2012, 13:27

Re: Doesn't scale

Post by Yorgad »

Hey, there's also something else going with some cards barely readable (even when hovering with the cursor). Note I also play 80% mode as OP to have the domination cards displayed on the right. But I've included 100% zoom as well.
80-zoom.png
80-zoom.png (366.92 KiB) Viewed 594 times
100-zoom.png
100-zoom.png (370.33 KiB) Viewed 594 times
Cheers,
Y.
User avatar
Yorgad
Posts: 131
Joined: 21 October 2012, 13:27

Re: Doesn't scale

Post by Yorgad »

While I'm at it, here is a suggestion to help readability. It's done similar for the Seasons game. Could you take advantage of it since it's mostly duplicate text?
Suggestion.png
Suggestion.png (360.91 KiB) Viewed 592 times
Cheers,
Y.
Post Reply

Return to “Innovation”