Is it possible to avoid playing with trade-hiders?

[Stroom]

Catan is a game where a bad player can influence a game in either way - either he/she helps you win or helps you lose. Or helps someone else win.

Not trading is generally a bad player move. One bad player can ruin the fun of the whole game. If you can't find good players to play with then there really isn't much point to even start the game.

[Jay]

I often turn off trades, it just means i want to burn the offering players clock instead of mine. People can take obscenely long to play out very simple turns. If I already know i dont have what someone wants (thats pretty easy to know sometimes), then id rather not have to spend 5-6 minutes between my turns refusing offers.

Many players get annoyed when, for example:

• on a map where noone got a brick during placement
  and no bricks have been rolled
  or only one or two two bricks have been rolled and they both got spent
  or something like that

oblivious to this, someone spends 2 minutes offering every combination of cards in their hand for a brick. If this is you, then you are the reason why trade hiding exists.

Of course i can still see trades... If they offer a trade I like and then cancel it i'll message them that I will do the trade. And as numerous players have pointed out, sometimes refusing to trade except on your own turn is a good strategy.

Good news, if they arent playing correctly and you are, you rise in ranks and be able to exclude them by restricting to good players. In games where everyone is 200+, (usually) everyone listens to trades, noone offers impossible trades and the game goes really fast.

[Cos-]

> Did you really not understand the meaning or just like playing semantics?

Your phrase did not mean what I wrote. So I think perhaps you don't understand the meaning? You were trying to paraphrase what I said, but you wrote something with a different meaning. Based on your newer comment, it looks like your intention may have been to alter what I was talking about into something that seems more "innocent", either without realizing you were altering it, or maybe just not caring that you were.

> They are playing the game legally

What do you specifically mean by this term "legally"? The official game rules do not have any provision for something like this; according to the official game rules, you can accept trade offers or not, but they don't suggest you have the option of just leaving the room and refusing to come back until it's your turn, or wearing noise-cancelling headphones, or something like that, to prevent yourself from even hearing when someone proposes a trade. It is "legal" by game rules to say no to every trade you hear, but it is abusing the game to do something to ensure that you can never even hear the trades people propose.

Maybe you just mean "they're using the options programmed into this BGA adaption in a way that the software doesn't prevent". But we all know BGA adaptions can have flaws, and sometimes options that can be useful in limited circumstances can also be abused. What I'm saying is that a) this is a flaw in this BGA adaptation, and b) people who mis-use it to just turn off all trades and leave it that way are abusing this flaw in an extreme way. You can choose to call it "legal" but it is absolutely NOT an appropriate way to play this game normally. It could be an agreed-upon variant between players who WANT to play in this unusual way, but that doesn't mean it's appropriate to spring on players who did not agree to it.

> If I refuse to listen to trade proposals in Monopoly will you call me obscene names too?

I haven't played Monopoly in far too long and don't remember how that works, so I can't speak to that.

But if you play Catan with players who haven't agreed to a no-trades house rule, and you close your ears and ensure that you can never hear when other players offer trades, then yes you would be acting like a major jerk. Not sure if you want to call that obscene, but it's not nice, and it's definitely deserved.

[Dennis W]

> Did you really not understand the meaning or just like playing semantics?


> They are playing the game legally

What do you specifically mean by this term "legally"?

So yes - You do want to play semantics....

Legally - by the rules. In the context of this convo, what else could it mean?

The official game rules do not have any provision for something like this; according to the official game rules, you can accept trade offers or not, but they don't suggest you have the option of just leaving the room and refusing to come back until it's your turn, or wearing noise-cancelling headphones, or something like that, to prevent yourself from even hearing when someone proposes a trade. It is "legal" by game rules to say no to every trade you hear, but it is abusing the game to do something to ensure that you can never even hear the trades people propose.

So your opinion is that unless any Rulebook specifically states that I can leave the room for any reason - I cannot? Unless the Rulebook specifically states that I can wear earplugs - I'm not allowed too? If the rulebook doesn't say I'm allowed to text on my phone - may I?

Please show me the rule where it states a player MUST listen to and acknowledge all trade proposals.
Or a Rule that states all plyers must be within hearing distance when a trade is proposed.
Do you consider it against the rules to propose a trade while a player is taking bathroom break? Or since the rules don't specifically state bathroom breaks are allowed - the person leaving the table is a Jerk and breaking your personal rules?

If I have no cards and cover my ears so I don't have to hear trades I can't participate in - I'm a Jerk? and (in your words) you will 'hate the person' for not wanting to waste his time? That's a lot of emotional baggage for a board game dude.

Maybe you just mean "they're using the options programmed into this BGA adaption in a way that the software doesn't prevent". But we all know BGA adaptions can have flaws, and sometimes options that can be useful in limited circumstances can also be abused. What I'm saying is that a) this is a flaw in this BGA adaptation, and b) people who mis-use it to just turn off all trades and leave it that way are abusing this flaw in an extreme way. You can choose to call it "legal" but it is absolutely NOT an appropriate way to play this game normally. It could be an agreed-upon variant between players who WANT to play in this unusual way, but that doesn't mean it's appropriate to spring on players who did not agree to it.

> If I refuse to listen to trade proposals in Monopoly will you call me obscene names too?

I haven't played Monopoly in far too long and don't remember how that works, so I can't speak to that.

But if you play Catan with players who haven't agreed to a no-trades house rule, and you close your ears and ensure that you can never hear when other players offer trades, then yes you would be acting like a major jerk. Not sure if you want to call that obscene, but it's not nice, and it's definitely deserved.

Got it. Play exactly how you want to play or else I'm a jerk even if I break zero rules. Your solution for someone who does not want to trade is to force them to use up their Real Life time to log in and hit 'No'. Even when being spammed with trades they can't even make if they wanted too. Because how you enjoy the game is far far more important than letting anyone else enjoy the game how they like to play. Must be nice for you.

[muntzer]

Wow. It's only a matter of time before someone gets compared to a Nazi.

Happy to clear the air, somewhat.

1. IF you want to win, you should only ever accept a trade when it increases your chances of beating the person offering the trade. Helping other people build and buy cards usually helps them win, not you. Sometimes people propose a trade when they are on 8 or 9 points - seriously?

2. For that same reason, trading often only makes sense in the early game when resources are scarce. Once you've got a steady supply of stuff, trading becomes way less important. I will only consider a trade when it's offering me generous terms and I can use the received resources IMMEDIATELY. Otherwise, I'm helping someone to progress without a clear benefit in return. Ever traded with someone, then they take back their stuff with Resource Monopoly?

2b. When I propose a trade, I try to save time by offering exactly what someone needs and/or giving them more than I'm taking. If no one needs what I can offer, or I'm well in the lead, I don't even bother trying.

2c. When playing around a table, people can see if I'm actually considering a trade - I'll show interest, propose a counter offer. Other times, it's obvious I'm not interested and there's no point even talking. I might just say "hey, i don't want to trade with anyone right now" or simply show zero interest in trading with body language or facial expressions. It's not rude, it's not against the rules, it's not against the spirit, it doesn't stop the game being enjoyable for everyone.

3. Some people don't pay any attention to what has been rolled. They sit there constantly asking for resources no one has. I have zero patience for this sort of laziness.

4. Waiting for someone to offer seven different variations of the same trade on every turn is excruciating. Again, I'm much more likely to block trades until they get the hint.

5. PLEASE don't tell me how to play Catan.

The last point is a biggie. I don't mind some friendly banter or a reminder that someone has 2 for 1 trades on wood, but 'coaching' is never welcome. Play your own game your own way, please, and let me do the same.

”Why did you rob me? I'm on 3 pts, he's on 4 pts!"

Maybe you have a specific resource I'm after? Maybe I want to block production of a specific resource? Maybe your board position is superior? Maybe you're about to get longest road or largest army? Maybe it's just how I'm feeling right now?

You don't like how someone plays? Hit the red button and move on. No one has a responsibility to play in a way that makes you feel happy.

[el cosimo]

Nice post, Muntzer!
I think the same.. don’t see why trade blockers are a problem.. what the difference between rejecting always or say fast: don’t want to trade.. so block it…

And yeah your last message is big part.. but people mostly forget dev cards or rob you early when you maybe get long road with 5 roads but not really chance to extend it or when someone can get an easy connection to get it back but wait to get the points of longest road to hide that he is leading

[bagofnails]

Many people seem to have missed the point of the Op.It was not to criticize folks who choose not to trade, although this is a closely related issue. The Op was wanting an option to set up a table where trading is encouraged, or at least that trade hiding is not wanted.

(And evoking the spirit of Godwins Law on a forum about board games is probably inappropriate.)

[Cos-]

> So your opinion is that unless any Rulebook specifically states that I can leave the room for any reason - I cannot?

No, point is that if you were playing this game in real life and one player pointedly left the room or put noise cancelling headphones on every time it was other people's turn, so they could not hear anyone's trade offers, it would be very obvious to everyone that that person is a total asshole and people would very likely never want to play with them again.

I think you just made my point for me. You want to defend the "right" to act like an asshole and ruin other people's games just because they can't point to a hard rule that forbids your actions. And all I want is a way to avoid people like you and never have to play with you.

Fair enough?

[Cos-]

> Waiting for someone to offer seven different variations of the same trade on every turn is excruciating. Again, I'm much more likely to block trades until they get the hint.

In the feature request I posted - https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=74393 - I suggested keeping this ability. I wrote:

Add a table option: "Allow disabling trades for more than the current turn?"

If the option is set to yes, then the ability to disable trades can work as it currently does.

If the option is set to no, then people can only disable trades in response to a trade offer, and that setting will only last until the end of the current player's turn. So, everyone will see a player's first trade offer on their turn, every time, even though they may choose to not see any further trade offers on that same turn.

IOW, even in a table where it's not allowed to disable trades, you can still basically shut up someone who's offering repeated uninteresting trades on the same turn. This rarely happens, but if it does, I think that's a useful option even in "trades must be on" games.

[MsEnidster]

I like trading but I don't have patience for players that send over three or more trades per turn -- it just drags the play out too long. In response that's when I hide trades. I don't think it makes me a rude player -- people should know better than that.