No Time Limit shouldn't mean Training Mode

[Jellby]

the red clock, but that I am getting Karam hits when it does not matter. If you run out of time constantly, eventually your Karama gets hits which then messes with what games outside that you can join, and tournaments.

No, you only get a karma penalty when you are expelled. If you run out of time but no one expels you, it will appear as an "event" in your reputation tab, but with no penalty whatsoever. If you get a karma hit it's because someone has expelled you.

See here: https://boardgamearena.com/player?id=85 ... reputation two red clocks, but no penalty (as of this writing).
While here: https://boardgamearena.com/player?id=33 ... reputation there are a few more, but only the most recent one implies a penalty, and note the icon is different too.

[CuriousPhilomath]

Another problem with the change is the stigma associated with the term Training Mode. (Apologies if this issue has already been raised.)

As this discussion shows, plenty of people are good at games certain games (and have a high ELO to prove it) but would still like to play (competitively, but) without time pressure, for any number of reasons.

But none of these people want to feel like they're being treated like children or newbies and — intentionally or not — the term Training Mode implies either one or both of those.

My personal preference — for what it's worth — would be to bring back unlimited time games, only allowed between mutually-declared Friends (as before), for Turn-Based games only (not as before, but then, it never made sense for Real-Time games) and call it "Friend Mode'.

Since all turn-based games expire after 5 weeks if no one takes a turn (I'm looking at you, Vektorace!), no one will be eternally trapped in a game.

(Note to all the people saying that players should be more careful about their online friends: that's no answer. On other turn-based game sites, I've played against consistent, dependable and friendly players for years, only to find one day that they were no longer playing. I had to assume that they had died, and had been so inconsiderate as to not leave instructions to their loved ones to log in to the game site and let all their opponents know, as I'm sure you have all been careful to do.)

[nik592]

It looks like a player quit after less than 5 minutes in 8 of these games.

Were these people able to have multiple no-time games going at once, or was it counted as a real-time game? If people were limited to only one at a time, then you could feel trapped. The solution in this case would be to classify these games as turn-based and let people play in multiple ones.

I agree with this and would like some more explanation. I only looked at the first game listed, but it looks like it was over in 3 minutes, so where was the part where they were "trapped"?

[Cotj]

Do training games apply to your history but not ELO? I enjoy being able to keep track of my wins and losses of games I mostly play against friends, so loosing this would be annoying.

[Damac]

Bring back this feature, I play a lot on here with friends, and this was one of the selling points. As a parent/professional I might get busy for a day and not be able to get to a game for a few days. My friends all understand and it was nice to not have to have the pressure of logging in constantly.

If anything keep it is a"Premium" Feature. For those of us paying for BGA, I think it is a nice perk.

Absolutely this. My friend group plays lots of games on here, most of them turn-based and no time limit. We enjoy the ELO scoring for the games, just as a nice feature to keep track of how we're doing across various games.

People have busy lives, and if their friend group has no issue with someone taking a few days to make a move, why on earth should BGA care? Having the no time limit option removed with the only alternative being "2 days max per turn!!!" is not realistic for a lot of people.

Leave the system as is. If it's bothering some people to the point where they are complaining to admins, then maybe just put up a more in your face notice when the option is selected (to make it crystal clear how it works for those that don't understand)... but don't take the feature away! For what it's worth, I think the way it worked was perfectly clear already.

Honestly, if someone in my friend group was abusing the system in some way, and a game sat unfinished for many weeks until it eventually timed out... so what? I would just not play another no time limit game with that person again. Easy solution, no need to go complaining to anyone.

Please please please leave this feature in place.

[cigma]

Were these people able to have multiple no-time games going at once, or was it counted as a real-time game? If people were limited to only one at a time, then you could feel trapped. The solution in this case would be to classify these games as turn-based and let people play in multiple ones.

You could have multiple no-time games going at once, but you can't have muliple games in training mode at once! This is one of the reasons why this change is negative.

[cigma]

As for your reference - There are several bug reports about missing this feature:
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=76830
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=77634
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=77609
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=77624

[Philoupino]

Bring back this feature, I play a lot on here with friends, and this was one of the selling points. As a parent/professional I might get busy for a day and not be able to get to a game for a few days. My friends all understand and it was nice to not have to have the pressure of logging in constantly.

If anything keep it is a"Premium" Feature. For those of us paying for BGA, I think it is a nice perk.

Absolutely this. My friend group plays lots of games on here, most of them turn-based and no time limit. We enjoy the ELO scoring for the games, just as a nice feature to keep track of how we're doing across various games.

People have busy lives, and if their friend group has no issue with someone taking a few days to make a move, why on earth should BGA care? Having the no time limit option removed with the only alternative being "2 days max per turn!!!" is not realistic for a lot of people.

Leave the system as is. If it's bothering some people to the point where they are complaining to admins, then maybe just put up a more in your face notice when the option is selected (to make it crystal clear how it works for those that don't understand)... but don't take the feature away! For what it's worth, I think the way it worked was perfectly clear already.

Honestly, if someone in my friend group was abusing the system in some way, and a game sat unfinished for many weeks until it eventually timed out... so what? I would just not play another no time limit game with that person again. Easy solution, no need to go complaining to anyone.

Please please please leave this feature in place.

I completely agree with that, I just discovered yesterday that the "No time limit with friends" option had disappeared and this is a real downgrade of the website functionalities... unless a new option like "1 move per 10 days" appears for example.

The No time limit with friends is the perfect way to play with friends you rely on, with an ELO scoring to keep some challenge, and with several games at the same time of the same game, which is not possible in Training mode.

There are a lot of games played with friends, in which someone sometimes stop playing during 10 days for holidays, and everyone is OK for that (that's why we are using the No time limit mode knowing the consequences), and using a "1 move every 2 days" would not be possible...

Unless you change the holiday time joker from 4 to 12 for example, but again that would be really less clever than letting people play the way they prefer: why is this deleted by the way ?? If you have friends who opens games and stop playing just because they're going to loose, well you can just unfollow them and that's it... or never play with them again.
But forbidding everyone to enjoy a No time pressure with friends in multiple games, just because some people do not play intentionally when they're going to loose is like killing a fly with a bazooka, or deleting a good feature just for some bad people... who should not be those you work for, but for good people who enjoy this feature peacefully.

Please please please go back to the previous state, and don't stop us from playing!!

[euklid314]

I have no problem playing several games in training mode simultanuously (turn based). Where is the problem for others?

[RobertBr]

The No time limit with friends is the perfect way to play with friends you rely on, with an ELO scoring to keep some challenge, and with several games at the same time of the same game, which is not possible in Training mode.

There is no difference between what you are describing and playing with 1 move per 2 days and simply refusing to kick anyone who is out of time. Just do that. Someone would have to disappear for a month for the game to be cancelled. The only possible use of no time limit games with Elo is for a player to abuse it by refusing to finish games they are losing. This is a substantial improvement to the service by gradually eliminating an option which exists to be abused.