No Time Limit shouldn't mean Training Mode

[6element]

It is really hard to understand for me that you guys are so focused on Elo when you play untimed games with your friends.

+100

[fmiskolc]

I don't agree with the folks who seem to be bashing ELO usage w/ friends.

I think ELO is valuable even when playing against a smallish group cause it gives a quick easy way to gauge your standings in the game instead of having to drill down and see that John is beating Billy 78-52 head to head but if Bob is playing too then his stats are xyz...

Also, due to the nature of ELO it is really difficult to really reach any decent ELO so it's not like people are using it to skyrocket their points. Unless one person completely dominates the ELO points see-saw between the same group... and if one person dominates a much weaker opponent their ELO barely increases, which is just an intrinsic part of how ELO works whether in the chess or the soccer rankings... We've been playing our games for a year and the highest we ever got was average with most people stuck on beginner.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be mean to anyone who doesn't care about ELO but having people who do isn't taking anythign away from those who don't so I personally don't think this is a valid conter-argument against bringing back the No Time Limit functionality.

[fargocyclone]

It is really hard to understand for me that you guys are so focused on Elo when you play untimed games with your friends.

This is easy: Because it's fun! I play on BGA because it's fun. We like to track our ELOs and compare, because it's fun. The point of this whole site is for fun! And I love it! Why take away an aspect of the fun?

[Meeplelowda]

It is really hard to understand for me that you guys are so focused on Elo when you play untimed games with your friends.

This is easy: Because it's fun! I play on BGA because it's fun. We like to track our ELOs and compare, because it's fun. The point of this whole site is for fun! And I love it! Why take away an aspect of the fun?

I think they don't understand why you think it's fun. But why you think it's fun is irrelevant. The vast majority of people in this thread hate this change. Some people are neutral (me included), but I'd have to scrape through the thread to find maybe a handful of people who think the change is good, aside from the site admin who has posted a couple times. To be honest, based on memory alone I don't recall any positive feedback. That is rare. People find reasons to take the other side on just about any issue, even just to troll.

So unless there's some huge silent majority out there who do not participate on the forum, this change is almost universally reviled. There has got to be some way to compromise on this, perhaps by not having timing out of friends-only games result in a notation on your profile.

[cigma]

I feel the problem was when no time limit tables were created as real-time which could prevent players from joining other real-time tables if someone is spitefully refusing to move (hence the use of the word "trapped"). The problem should be alleviated if no time limit is restricted to only turn-based tables.

Sourisdudesert, I would really like to know if this could solve the problem that you have given as reason for this change. If yes, then please restrict no time limit tables to only turn-based (which actually means they can be played as real-time as well)!

EDIT: See also https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28412

[znajder]

I feel the problem was when no time limit tables were created as real-time which could prevent players from joining other real-time tables if someone is spitefully refusing to move (hence the use of the word "trapped"). The problem should be alleviated if no time limit is restricted to only turn-based tables.

Sourisdudesert, I would really like to know if this could solve the problem that you have given as reason for this change. If yes, then please restrict no time limit tables to only turn-based (which actually means they can be played as real-time as well)!

Based on all the comments in this thread, it does look like the issue is really just an issue for real-time tables. So, in an attempt to highlight the fact that Turn Based games were impacted negatively by this change (and a much like feature, given the feedback in this thread) I created a new thread where I tried to detangle the conversation about Turn Based games from this thread, which as the Subject and original post implies was meant to address the Real-Time tables.

Here's the separate thread:
https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28412

[shrouded figure]

It is really hard to understand for me that you guys are so focused on Elo when you play untimed games with your friends.

+100

1. Some feel it is infantilizing to be forced to play Training mode as if it suggests we don't know things and need to walk with training wheels or something. A bit exaggerated but that's the gist.

Oddly I fail to see the point in training mode for players who doesn't know the game - they'd be playing as 0 Elo and have nothing to lose anyway even in normal mode. But I digress.

2. Some might like collecting achievements for reaching Good Player/Strong Player etc and that's not possible with training mode.

3. Difference in play styles. Some like it completely uncompetitive. Some like to keep a record of all their played games. Regardless, more options that suit more people is not a bad thing.

[mfl134]

I personally would love to keep being able to play unlimited time games in Normal Mode.

[dschingis27]

It is really hard to understand for me that you guys are so focused on Elo when you play untimed games with your friends.

This is easy: Because it's fun! I play on BGA because it's fun. We like to track our ELOs and compare, because it's fun. The point of this whole site is for fun! And I love it! Why take away an aspect of the fun?

I think they don't understand why you think it's fun. But why you think it's fun is irrelevant. The vast majority of people in this thread hate this change. Some people are neutral (me included), but I'd have to scrape through the thread to find maybe a handful of people who think the change is good, aside from the site admin who has posted a couple times. To be honest, based on memory alone I don't recall any positive feedback. That is rare. People find reasons to take the other side on just about any issue, even just to troll.

So unless there's some huge silent majority out there who do not participate on the forum, this change is almost universally reviled. There has got to be some way to compromise on this, perhaps by not having timing out of friends-only games result in a notation on your profile.

Historically, there have been complaints in other threads that are solved with this change. The "getting stuck" problem is one of them but yes, this one alone could have been solved differently. However, there are other problems that are solved with the recent change as well.
- The Elo system is less prone to exploitation.
- People confused "No Time Limit ranked" with training mode and then complained that they get penalties by leaving the game although they "just played a casual game with friends." Or when the game finished properly, they complained there is an Elo effect even though the game was casual.
- You prevent having unfinished games just lying around for nothing only because no one dares to abort the game.

If having these problems solved is worth to annoy a tiny part of your user base who don't like the change, that's a choice the admins make.

[painter3331]

Please change things back. I play with friends all over U.S. from the east coast to the west. We all have lives, and are fine if someone needs to be gone for a day or two. Additionally, I have a friend who is Jewish, who does not play at all on his Sabbath. This really negatively effects him. I play with my adult children, one of whom has health issues, and may not be able to play every single day. We don't want to play in training mode. We want the elo for the games. We all play with strangers as well, so we are not gaining ranking based merely by playing with each other. Please, please, take things back to the way they were. We were all much happier. And, as I can see in this thread, we are not the only ones made unhappy by this change.