Vote which scenarios to eliminate from Arena - Urgent

Forum rules
Please DO NOT POST BUGS on this forum. Please report (and vote) bugs on : https://boardgamearena.com/bugs
User avatar
MagnusNygaard
Posts: 181
Joined: 16 October 2022, 12:16

Re: Vote which scenarios to eliminate from Arena - Urgent

Post by MagnusNygaard »

PaskinsP wrote: 04 January 2023, 21:57 But that simply isn't true, and with that logic...
Next will be asking to put measures against bad dice roll streaks.

Some phenomenal dice can also very, very well win a match.
And that is no fun either.... at all.

And furthermore, a right combination of powerful cards can win the game, NO matter when drawn, and the opponent is equally impotent against them.

If you are to call maps "un-competitive" if a good hand comes around, the same argument can be made for too many good dice stats.
I think you're missing the points a lot of us is making. It's not that we're not aware that there's a lot of random chance involved in Memoir44 - there is - it's part of the fun, and at critical points in the game you often have to bet on your luck, no matter what. '
But the "fun" in ANY game is making decisions and dealing with the consequences. And there are maps, especially in the original box and in the Mediterranean expansion, that just take the decisions out of the game FAR TOO often. And it's avoidable. It's even, if you look at the later official maps, clear that the designer of the game avoids those decision killing setups.
Now - I know that there's also a problem if we get a pool of games in the ARENA that is too shallow - because repetition can also ruin fun. But I guess we'll have to wait a while for more "official" games to be added to the pool.

Any way - that's what I mean by "fun".
Col Rosenberg
Posts: 69
Joined: 25 December 2022, 08:08

Re: Vote which scenarios to eliminate from Arena - Urgent

Post by Col Rosenberg »

Next will be asking to put measures against bad dice roll streaks.
I'm sure that will become a reality, some day.
Some phenomenal dice can also very, very well win a match. And that is no fun either.... at all.
For whom?

Arena is trying to level the playing field. Both opponents having equal chances to win from the "beginning" of a match.
Wanting each game to have balance. The game (scenario) is what's important, not the match.

I say, take mirrored games out of Arena :P Now that would be a challenge.
User avatar
ripted pizzaz
Posts: 28
Joined: 02 February 2017, 06:20

Re: Vote which scenarios to eliminate from Arena - Urgent

Post by ripted pizzaz »

Tisaac wrote: 04 January 2023, 20:11 the main thing that you have here is active developpers on the game that already implemented more features than the online while fixing some well known bug of the systems, and that are open to discuss evolution of the game with the community. It's a global win IMO, but indeed it's not better on all aspect.
Hey Tissac,

Thanks for all you do. I think the game is great and I hope you understand the majority of players value the effort you and the other developers put in.

Many threads like this become echo chambers of complaint and unrealistic or ungrounded ideas and I think that's terrible.

Keep up the good work.

-ripted pizzaz
User avatar
Jeronimon
Posts: 301
Joined: 11 June 2022, 11:34

Re: Vote which scenarios to eliminate from Arena - Urgent

Post by Jeronimon »

ripted pizzaz wrote: 04 January 2023, 22:58
Tisaac wrote: 04 January 2023, 20:11 the main thing that you have here is active developpers on the game that already implemented more features than the online while fixing some well known bug of the systems, and that are open to discuss evolution of the game with the community. It's a global win IMO, but indeed it's not better on all aspect.
Hey Tissac,

Thanks for all you do. I think the game is great and I hope you understand the majority of players value the effort you and the other developers put in.

Many threads like this become echo chambers of complaint and unrealistic or ungrounded ideas and I think that's terrible.

Keep up the good work.

-ripted pizzaz
I second the compliments Ripted Pizzaz gives our developers (yes I aid our ;) )
Really really great work. I am playing memoir'44 all day now (don't tell my boss ;) )


@Ripted Pizzaz
I see your point when you say: "Many threads like this become echo chambers of complaint and unrealistic or ungrounded ideas and I think that's terrible."
I find that the Memoir'44 forum has more substantial discussion and less "echo-chambering" as forums for other games.
I see players who are passionate about getting it right. And yes my "right" is different from yours or theirs, but that's why we are talking bout it.


Back to the subject:
I can see the pont of not wanting to "lose" any scenario for the Arena.
I also get the point of wanting to "prune". the scenario tree for the Arena.
And because the new Arena season is upon us Cesareraf found and in and wants to quickly implement because he (and I) are of the option that excluding certain scenarios will make the arena season better.


Personal example
I have played Point du hoc quite a few times recently on BGA. And while I always have fun playing memoir'44 and storming the beach with the Germans was also fun (sorry Misterfunny :) ). Usually that scenario is a slog where the Germans get whittled away slowly and die. Not very much interesting choices to be made unless you try some crazy stuff with the Germans and get away with it. By choice I would rather play a more interesting scenario.

And there are lots of them out there and they are multiplying like rabbits. (almost) Every live tournament designs new scenarios to be played, and a lot of the online ones to. there is so much out there that can (and needs to) be played that is so much more enticing than the scenarios we play now. And make no mistake, I still enjoy those scenarios. But why should I bite a stick when there is fine dining out there to be had. :)

Sorry for hyjacking the thread, but I am also passionate about this game. :)
User avatar
Waikirikiri
Posts: 180
Joined: 25 November 2022, 03:19

Re: Vote which scenarios to eliminate from Arena - Urgent

Post by Waikirikiri »

MagnusNygaard wrote: 04 January 2023, 19:52
Waikirikiri wrote: 04 January 2023, 19:34
Tisaac wrote: 04 January 2023, 07:47
1. Not doable before new season
2. What do you mean ?
3. Not doable, you either win or lose, and that's the only thing taken into account by bga for ELO/Arena point computation


3) It is possible to more fairly allocation points gained or lost if the system is made smarter.
The statistics are in the system. The system could do a better analysis of the result.
Are you saying the no-one wants a better system?

As a new BGA player I am becoming more and more disillusioned with the system.
It promises so much, but delivers much less.
You have to be more specific Mark. What system are you referring to? Are you saying that you want compensation for when you're unlucky?
I know you, and I know you don't think it's fun to just be completely unable to do something about your situation. And that's what my point is - if it's not fun - then we all lose.
The points allocation system Magnus.
It can be smarter than simply win or lose.
The data is there, we are playing on computers.
The system can do a better analysis of the result to determine points won/lost.
It seems to me, and I have been a software developer, that no-one can be bothered to build a better system.
And, to me, that is extremely disappointing.

Don't get me wrong, I think the port of M44 to BGA is good, but it could be so much better.


When we were beta testers for the original M44 online system our suggestions were considered, and many of mine were implemented. These made the game system better.
Col Rosenberg
Posts: 69
Joined: 25 December 2022, 08:08

Re: Vote which scenarios to eliminate from Arena - Urgent

Post by Col Rosenberg »

I think the port of M44 to BGA is good, but it could be so much better.
Could be yes. Won't happen until the Devs gain a Heart for this Game...Often Governing fairness over funness.
lot of random chance involved in Memoir44 - there is - it's part of the fun
Isn't random chance also "part of the fun" having to do with playing in the Arena?
But the "fun" in ANY game is making decisions and dealing with the consequences.
So why should arena be any different? You made your decision (chose Arena), deal with it...or is it no longer "your idea of fun"?

@MagnusNygaard - Having to play against you, in the Arena, my only hope would be luck...having a random map like Pegasus Bridge or Arnhem Bridge come up. Involving the least amount of good-luck possible to win. It would not prove to be fun for only me but for many sub-par players...don't take away the Glory...Do you understand the joy and excitement you could bring to a new player...them gloating over the fact that they beat Magnus.

Points aren't involved. It should remain fun for all...Not, just your idea of fun.
This should be a unanimous vote.
Last edited by Col Rosenberg on 05 January 2023, 09:52, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
Tisaac
Posts: 2736
Joined: 26 August 2014, 21:28

Re: Vote which scenarios to eliminate from Arena - Urgent

Post by Tisaac »

Waikirikiri wrote: 04 January 2023, 23:55
MagnusNygaard wrote: 04 January 2023, 19:52
Waikirikiri wrote: 04 January 2023, 19:34



3) It is possible to more fairly allocation points gained or lost if the system is made smarter.
The statistics are in the system. The system could do a better analysis of the result.
Are you saying the no-one wants a better system?

As a new BGA player I am becoming more and more disillusioned with the system.
It promises so much, but delivers much less.
You have to be more specific Mark. What system are you referring to? Are you saying that you want compensation for when you're unlucky?
I know you, and I know you don't think it's fun to just be completely unable to do something about your situation. And that's what my point is - if it's not fun - then we all lose.
The points allocation system Magnus.
It can be smarter than simply win or lose.
The data is there, we are playing on computers.
The system can do a better analysis of the result to determine points won/lost.
It seems to me, and I have been a software developer, that no-one can be bothered to build a better system.
And, to me, that is extremely disappointing.

Don't get me wrong, I think the port of M44 to BGA is good, but it could be so much better.


When we were beta testers for the original M44 online system our suggestions were considered, and many of mine were implemented. These made the game system better.
Again, please read my previous answer. This site is NOT all about M44 whereas Online app was. Which means that some features you requested are simply not possible to do here, because we have to use the overall bga framework.
And honestly i have no idea anyway on how to built something smarter than current ELO calculation to automatically approximate a player skill at M44. I mean you could also argue in chess that win/lose is not the only things that mater but they are using the ELO system for a while now and seems happy about that.
User avatar
kaimada
Posts: 3
Joined: 08 January 2016, 13:40

Re: Vote which scenarios to eliminate from Arena - Urgent

Post by kaimada »

My last 6 arena games were 3 times Knightsbridge and 2 times Pegasus. Its simply not fun at all. Pegasus sometimes can be slightly interesting but Knightsbridge is pure luckfest. And i wish I could ban at least these 3-4 maps i really hate to play because it is so boring.
User avatar
Wiking44
Posts: 142
Joined: 10 June 2022, 14:07

Re: Vote which scenarios to eliminate from Arena - Urgent

Post by Wiking44 »

kaimada wrote: 05 January 2023, 11:41 My last 6 arena games were 3 times Knightsbridge and 2 times Pegasus. Its simply not fun at all. Pegasus sometimes can be slightly interesting but Knightsbridge is pure luckfest. And i wish I could ban at least these 3-4 maps i really hate to play because it is so boring.
That is what they are asking Tell us what scenarios you want removed from Arena play
User avatar
kaimada
Posts: 3
Joined: 08 January 2016, 13:40

Re: Vote which scenarios to eliminate from Arena - Urgent

Post by kaimada »

Wiking44 wrote: 05 January 2023, 15:05
kaimada wrote: 05 January 2023, 11:41 My last 6 arena games were 3 times Knightsbridge and 2 times Pegasus. Its simply not fun at all. Pegasus sometimes can be slightly interesting but Knightsbridge is pure luckfest. And i wish I could ban at least these 3-4 maps i really hate to play because it is so boring.
That is what they are asking Tell us what scenarios you want removed from Arena play
And Ive already voted.

My response was point at anyone wanting to have full randomness from all scenarios.
Post Reply

Return to “Memoir 44”