Community balance changes

[MrToot]

These changes are specifically aimed at the full version of the game (Agora+Pantheon), which seems to be the most complex and skill-based.

The main idea is to tone down the most unfair cards, which can give a player a huge advantage very early on in the game, while giving their opponent almost no possible counterplay. There are also a couple of smaller tweaks to bring the power level of certain cards/tokens closer together. 

In my opinion, it's important to make cards interesting and fun to play with without making them overly demoralizing for your opponent (looking at you "Steal a Wonder").

Lastly, I'm trying to make these changes as minimalistic as possible because i think the game design of 7WD is great and larger changes would make the game too different and confuse people too much.


1.) The most important changes

"Knossos" (Wonder)

• you can no longer place an influence cube after picking this wonder

• +2 victory points

"Ra" (Divinity) and "Extortion" (Conspiracy)

• new effect: "Exchange a wonder with your opponent" (constructed for unconstructed)

2.) Changes to make the difference in power level of Wonders smaller:

"The Temple of Artemis" and "Curia Julia"

• -2 coins

"The Divine Theather"

• -2 victory points

"The Great Lighthouse" and "The Great Library"

• +1 victory point

"The Pyramids"

• +2 victory points

3.) Balance changes to Progress tokens:

"Organized crime"

• i̶n̶ ̶a̶d̶d̶i̶t̶i̶o̶n̶,̶ ̶d̶r̶a̶w̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶p̶ ̶C̶o̶n̶s̶p̶i̶r̶a̶c̶y̶ ̶c̶a̶r̶d̶

• new effect: "You can trigger your unprepared Conspiracy cards" (credit to Barrel Rider)

"Poliorcetics"

• in addition, you gain a coin for each space the Conflict token moves towards your opponent

4.) Other changes to Conspiracy cards

"Espionage"

• now has the same effect as "The Great Library" (choose 1 of 3 randomly selected discarded Progress tokens)

"Embezzlement"

• new effect: "Gain the amount of coins equal to the number of influence cubes of the player who has more of them placed in the Senat. Your opponent loses up to the same amount."

So these are all the changes. What do you guys think? Would this be a positive change for the game? I'm mainly interested in the opinions of the top players, but anyone is welcome to discuss

[silentProtest]

I think ... there should be Up/like and Down/dislike buttons for posts here !
I like the general idea, but Id say it is really hard to change things up to "better" the balance and game dynamics ("better" because it can be a specific definition for some aimed result - if there is no clear definition/goal, it becomes a philosophical question about what better means or an empiric one, which can be quite useless).

My idea would be to take the options of extreme advantages, by giving counters, or nerfing some specific use cases ( julia and knosos starts can be brutal, even if the very worst ones are EXTREMLY unlikely)

Enhancing the bad cards/wonders, would be better if it gives new dynamics (else, maybe some beyond useless things just could be cut ?? ). Also some bad things should stay, like Pyramids, as they are, imo. It gives new players clearer understanding of better and worse things and tactics.

[Barrel Rider]

Definitely need to do something with the token Crime Organise... It is possible to change the rules to play an unprepared conspiracy immediately. Frequently you can blocking enemy's choices with a trash black card. I think a lot of player did it аnd this is part of the strategy. So if change the rules of it we can use it for unexpected attack and perhaps they will more popular

[silentProtest]

Definitely need to do something with the token Crime Organise... It is possible to change the rules to play an unprepared conspiracy immediately. Frequently you can blocking enemy's choices with a trash black card. I think a lot of player did it аnd this is part of the strategy. So if change the rules of it we can use it for unexpected attack and perhaps they will more popular

Organized Crime, Science token - "One must keep both plot cards, instead of choosing one", is one of the worthless things that should, imo, be gone or reworked in a way that changes up the game, giving more fun options (increases dynamics).
Changing its effect to "make plot cards playable immidiatly, without loading it with a card first" , seems to me like a worthwhile change

[MrToot]

Yes! I really like that idea. I'm going to try it out in my home games from now on

[michaelHastriter]

Don't have strong opinions anywhere except Organized Crime needs a rework for sure.

Also if they ever make another expansion they need to seriously think about balancing the wonders with regards to those that give points. I think the more points a wonder gives the worse it is. You can almost just coach a new player and tell them pick the extra turn wonders, and then choose the lower point wonders in that order.

Something like Temple of Artemis, Sphinx, Circus Maximus, and Pyramids would lead a new player to first look at ToA and Sphinx and then choose ToA because of the lower points. or if they went 2nd pick Sphinx and Circus Maximus because Pyramids is higher in points and thus worse overall.

New progress token:
I think a progress token that doubles your points from wonders would be good as a balance, but that only helps in a culture win.

"Wonder Points":
I think an expansion could give some strengths to military/science/economy or even more card manipulation capability based around a separate metric of points from wonders.

"Wonder point advantage:"
while you have an advantage in Wonder points there may be an ongoing effect similar to senate bonuses. Or perhaps an effect that happens at the end of each age.
(peaking at 1 of 3 cards removed from the next age)
(going first in the next age)
(rebuilding your opponent's destroyed conflict token)
(trading out a progress token for a new random one)
(idk)

[MrToot]

I think "Poliorcetics" is almost as weak as "Organized crime" so it should get buffed as well.

I really doubt there is going to be another expansion as the game feels pretty complete right now. It would be nice though

I like the idea of "Wonder point advantage". It's a cool way to somewhat balance the wonders without changing them.

I'm going to try it out in home games by selecting two random Decree tokens not selected for the Senat (one visible and one hidden) at the start of the game. The player controlling the "Wonder point advantage" is going to benefit from these tokens.