Moving up the cliff/bluff

[patsyish]

7-PointeduHoc:
"The hill that runs along the beach is a cliff. Moving up the cliff from the beach is a 2 hex move. From the inland side, treat it as a normal hill in battle and for movement."

11-FirstAssaultWave:
The hill that runs along the beach is a bluff. Moving up the bluff from the beach is a 2 hex move. Tanks may not move up the bluff from the beach. From the inland side, treat the bluff as a normal hill in battle and for movement.

13-OmahaBeachOverlord:
The hill that runs along the beach is a sea bluff. Moving up the bluff from the beach is a 2 hex move. Tanks may not move up the bluff from the beach. From the inland side, treat it as a normal hill in battle and for movement.

1. Can tanks move down the bluff of cliff?
2. Is moving down the cliff of bluff to the beach 2 hex move?
3. Is the cliff/bluff movement rules exactly same in all those scenarios? If not what is the differences?
4. Do you understand the word 'cliff' as a steep slope between the beach and higher land of as a hill tile? (This difference is VERY important)
5. If moving down the cliff from the hill to the beach is 2 hex move of not allowed to some units, should it be explicitly stated?

(I am translating the game in Finnish and I need to understand the rules quite exactly. I also need to know how people understand the English expressions and do the original English texts need clarification. I have also filed a bug reporth of this, but as this more a matter of linguistics and not programming, I brought it here)

[Waikirikiri]

A good place to seek your answers is the DoW M44 Game Cards DB.

Some of your questions will be answered there.

https://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/e ... compendium

[patsyish]

A good place to seek your answers is the DoW M44 Game Cards DB.

Some of your questions will be answered there.

https://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/e ... compendium

I tried to look there, but I did not find anything about those specific questions, can you please be more specific about where did you find the answers.

I think that I already know the rules by learning many things by trial and error (as the documentation was incorrect), but I have not been able to test every detail by playing all those scenarios.

[Jeronimon]

I think the clearest answer is found in the Neptune rules (that replaced some previous rules):

Text:
Coastlines
(Terrain 68 - Coastlines)
Coastline hexes follow the same rules as Beach
hexes in all regards. However, a Hill that is next to a Coastline hex is considered a Cliff, while a Hill that is next to a Beach is considered a Bluff (see opposite).
Note to Mediterranean Theater owners: this new Coastline rule replaces the rule that was introduced in the Mediterranean Theater expansion, where Coastlines (Desert) played exactly as Ocean hexes.

Cliffs
(Terrain 11 - Cliffs & Sea Bluffs)
When a Hill hex is next to an Ocean or Coastline
hex, it is called a Cliff. Cliffs must be treated as normal Hills from the inland side for movement and battle, and as
normal Hills from both sides for retreat.
x Movement: Moving up from/down to a Coastline is a 2 hex move for Infantry. An Infantry unit cannot Take Ground from a Coastline hex up onto a Cliff or down from a Cliff. Armor/Artillery may not move up/down from the Coastline. No unit can move up/down a Cliff from an Ocean hex.
x Battle: When battling an enemy unit that is up a Cliff, Infantry and Armor reduce the number of Battle dice rolled by 1; Artillery Battle dice are not reduced. When battling an enemy unit at the same height as your unit, there is no Battle dice reduction.
x Line of Sight: Cliff hexes block line of sight, except from contiguously adjacent Hills at the same height.
x Air Check: 2

Sea Bluffs
(Terrain 11 - Cliffs & Sea Bluffs)
When a Hill hex is next to a Beach hex, it is called
a Bluff. Bluffs must be treated as normal Hills from inland side for movement and battle, and as normal Hills from both sides for retreat.
x Movement: Moving up from/down onto Beach is a 2 hex move for Infantry. An Infantry unit may Take Ground from a Beach hex up onto a Bluff and from a Bluff down to a Beach hex. Armor/Artillery may not move up/down from the Beach.
x Battle: When battling an enemy unit that is up a Bluff, Infantry and Armor reduce the number of Battle dice rolled by 1; Artillery Battle dice are not reduced. When battling an enemy unit at the same height as your unit, there is no Battle dice reduction.
x Line of Sight: Bluff hexes block line of sight, except from contiguously adjacent Hills at the same height.
x Air Check: 2

Source: DDay landings rulebook end of page 2 beginning of page 3

[patsyish]

Ok thanks. Could you answer the original question as well. The spesifications of those scenarios in Boardgamearena differ from what you handed - some of them probably are different, some of them are simply erraneous. Which of them should be corrected and which are genuinly different in those scenarios?

[Jeronimon]

Keep in mind those scenarios were posted (long) before the DDay expansion of 2014.
And in summary the only difference between a cliff and a bluff is that on and of a bluff infantry can take ground, which infantry cannot do on and of a cliff.

Point du hoc
I do not know how to treat this one. The rules state to treat it as a cliff, but it is not next to ocean or shoreline and should therefore be a bluff. In the old online it played as a bluff (i.e. the infantry could take ground up and down the bluff)

First assault wave
Described as and treated as a bluff.

Omaha beach overlord
Described as and treated as a bluff.

1. Can tanks move down the bluff of cliff?
Artillery and armor cannot move up or down cliffs and bluffs

2. Is moving down the cliff of bluff to the beach 2 hex move?
Yes

3. Is the cliff/bluff movement rules exactly same in all those scenarios? If not what is the differences?
In my interpretation there is no difference I see them all as bluffs. If you play point du hoc as a cliff the infantry cannot take ground up or down the cliff.

4. Do you understand the word 'cliff' as a steep slope between the beach and higher land of as a hill tile? (This difference is VERY important)
They are hill tiles, so from inland side you are battling uphill if you attack someone on a cliff or bluff.

5. If moving down the cliff from the hill to the beach is 2 hex move of not allowed to some units, should it be explicitly stated?
Only infantry can move up or down hills. Armor and artillery cannot. (To make it more confusing there are some vehicles that are treated as infantry, but they cannot move up or down cliffs bluffs as they are vehicles.)

I hope this helps

[patsyish]

The main point is now should I wait until the erroneous English texts are corrected or should I correct the translations so that at least the translated texts are correct?

[Jeronimon]

Only the point du hoc is possible erroneous so I would say: translate away.

And the way point du hoc plays now if you put bluffs in your translation that will work fine.

[patsyish]

Only the point du hoc is possible erroneous so I would say: translate away.

And the way point du hoc plays now if you put bluffs in your translation that will work fine.

the questions 1, 2, 4 and 5 need all corrections. e.g. when there is spoken only about one direction and should be spoken about both directions. The consept of cliff has been understood two ways by many players (a deep slope or a cliff tile) - but if that is not going to be clarified to the orginal text, i will simply make it clear in Finnish.

I will now make the corrections and end this discussion on my behalf if anything new will now arise.