Wood Duck

[Cos-]

Since the first time I read through this thread, I think I realized a possible reason why I see no problem with the wood duck and some people do: I suspect everyone who thinks the wood duck is too much, usually plays with "ban powerful bird cards" enabled. Without those other 4 in the deck, the wood duck stands out more.

However, I _never_ play with "ban powerful bird cards", I think doing so makes for a significantly poorer game. When all those cards are in the game, you have more of a chance of getting one of them, even if another player got one also. And also, when those cards are in the game, the wood duck doesn't stand out as much - it's another powerful bird among a bunch of powerful birds, and another possible counterbalance.

Powerful birds are not determines of the outcome. Here's a recent game in which I beat a pretty good player (mid-200s ELO) who got _both_ a raven and a killdeer near the start of the game, and I had none of the powerful birds (not even a wood duck): https://boardgamearena.com/10/wingspan?table=386084916

And another recent game where they got a raven in round 1, I got no powerful birds nor wood duck the whole game, and I won: https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=385349368

If you play a bunch of games, it's also very "fair" in that your odds of getting some of these cards are just as good as the odds that other players will. It's a much more interesting - and, I think, fun - game with those cards. And if you have the 4 "powerful birds", it's definitely better to have the wood duck in the game along with them.

[chuffles]

I watched the first 4 turns of that replay.... that guy played terribly lol - there is no world where you should lose with Raven/KD.

Opening a game with Raven and/or Killdeer is completely uncompetitive and takes all the skill out of the game - Wood Duck, to a slightly lesser effect, does the same thing. Anytime where you can completely bypass a habitat is unbelievable.

[Cos-]

I've very often seen games where a player without a raven or killdeer/franklin's gull beat a player with one of those, with similar rating. I just gave the two most recent ones I remembered, but my point (well, part of my point) is that it happens often enough that none of those birds are guarantees.

[detlefchef11]

I've beaten someone with a big 4, but I'm thrilled when I do and it certainly doesn't happen "often". There's no question that they're the big 4.

I do love the wood duck and, when paired with a pileated (or to a lesser extent a chipping sparrow, mourning dove, or CA Quail, it's massively powerful bird. It's even great without those if you can get some cashing birds to earn points while you gain food. In short, I think it's a strong #5. White Stork in EE is just a half step worse since you don't get to use it to grab something already in the tray.

I also don't think it or the others should be banned.

[KindKakapo]

It feels like Wood Duck needs less "support" than OP birds. Even with raven you really want to build somewhat decent water engine to draw stuff you actually want to play with all that food. Also it's my comfort bird and i don't think it should be banned

[Madlaine]

I disagree, ravens are full * and works by themselves after 2 or 3 messy turns. Draw, score, play, repeat.

With Wood Duck you need To manage your egg engine, draw extra cards once in a while and find a way To deal with the extra food.

*moderator edit: please do not use insulting or demeaning language on BGA

[detlefchef11]

I disagree, ravens are full * and works by themselves after 2 or 3 messy turns. Draw, score, play, repeat.

With Wood Duck you need To manage your egg engine, draw extra cards once in a while and find a way To deal with the extra food.

Well, with Ravens you still need good cards to play, so you either need some luck with that or a vigorous wetlands program going. So neither one is perfect and yet both are pretty nice. In fact, one of the nice things about the wood duck is "dealing with all the extra food". You can use it for extra eggs, you don't have to worry having the right kind if you have more than you need.

[enbycass]

Probably best to keep on banning the best unbanned cards until all that's left are the Mallard and Horned Lark. Or how about not banning any cards in the first place? What a thought.

[lovertai]

Wood Duck is only good to be played before turn 10. It becomes slightly worse than normal birds (unless you are lucky) to be played between turn 11 to turn 15. After that it becomes completely useless.

The big 4, however, synergy well with the grassland endgame egg-laying combo, therefore you can even play them in turn 20 in some unusual situations. This gives the big 4 supreme power at any time.

I see no reason to ban a card that you must get and plan for it in round 1 (usually your starting hand). Otherwise, we should ban "Get all worm (invertebrate) from the feeder" ability first. It basically save you two turns for completing round goals if you get it in your starting hand and the birdfeeder result is not awful.

[Ze Monstah]

I've very often seen games where a player without a raven or killdeer/franklin's gull beat a player with one of those, with similar rating.

It is hard to think you are serious.
Why don't we start calling The Big 4, "The Small 4", then? If you have VERY OFTEN seen players WITHout those, beat players WITH those...
We could call them "The Small 4", to warn people not to take them.

Powerful birds are not determines of the outcome. Here's a recent game in which I beat a pretty good player (mid-200s ELO) who got _both_ a raven and a killdeer near the start of the game, and I had none of the powerful birds (not even a wood duck): https://boardgamearena.com/10/wingspan?table=386084916

And another recent game where they got a raven in round 1, I got no powerful birds nor wood duck the whole game, and I won: https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=385349368

Also, ELO or no ELO, you gave 2 examples that are... not OK, in my opinion.
You compare a game in which a player gets a Raven and Killdeer but doesn't have the best strategy so (s)he loses, to a game where you get a Raven and a decent strategy, and win. For real?
In my opinion, the 4 birds are overpowered and they shouldn't exist in competitive plays. Same goes for banned Pokémon, in competitions.

It's your choice to prefer more luck-based Wingspan games, but saying that the powerful 4 are "not determiners of the outcome" and that "very often, people without them beat people with them", is very unrealistic.