Arena Calculation

[ChiefPointThief]

I don't compete in arena too much but I've been active this season and noticed something. Me and another player have played against each other a lot. When they win the average is -23pts for me and when I win the average is +18pts. Both top 3 in terms of elo and arena rank all season. I would consider us even players (and actually they were a higher ranked player until this arena season) so the handicap seems off to me. Instead of having a net of +80 arena pts (if +20 were standard for both) I only received a net of +29pts ( record 13-9 this season). So if I beat a top 3 player 4 more times than they beat me and lose to any player outside of the top 3 just once I have a net loss. Am I looking at this wrong? Seems off. Also consider this game (sobek 2P) has a luck rating of 3 so you will probably lose games eventually to lower ranked players.

[Jellby]

You lose more when you lose against a player with lower ranking, and win more when you win against a player with higher ranking (i.e. ELO or Arena points). If you are on average higher than the other player, the other player will on average win more when they win than you.

[ChiefPointThief]

You lose more when you lose against a player with lower ranking, and win more when you win against a player with higher ranking (i.e. ELO or Arena points). If you are on average higher than the other player, the other player will on average win more when they win than you.

I understand how it works. I just think the point distribution here is extreme considering we are only 1 spot away from each other. Let’s say they win the next match and get +25. We would essentially have the same gain of arena pts against each other even though I would have 3 more victories over said player.

[Jellby]

It doesn't matter how many spots away you are, only the Arena score matters.

If you have similar skills, your scores should be similar too, so it makes sense that in the long run, the one that's behind wins more.

[ChiefPointThief]

It doesn't matter how many spots away you are, only the Arena score matters.

If you have similar skills, your scores should be similar too, so it makes sense that in the long run, the one that's behind wins more.

If you can’t get adequate points for beating 2nd place then it explains why a lot of players will get to the top and camp there. Also their score is lower because they’ve lost to me (in addition I may have more victories outside our matchup) so why should they get more pts for winning a rematch?

Using baseball as an analogy because they play a lot of games. The Yankees (1) and Red Sox (2) face each other a dozen times in the first half of the season. The Yankees win 7. During the middle of the season the Yankees also accumulate victories vs other teams while the Red Sox don’t.

Now let’s go to the 2nd half of the season and they play each other a dozen more times but now the Red Sox will be granted 1.5 victories each time they win instead of 1. Now with fewer head to head victories and fewer overall victories the Red Sox can surpass the Yankees and be crowned champs. How is this a proper way to gage a competition?

[Jellby]

There's no proper way, every way has its flaws. If you are better than they are, you'll sill beat them more often than lose, and stay ahead.

[ChiefPointThief]

There's no proper way, every way has its flaws. If you are better than they are, you'll sill beat them more often than lose, and stay ahead.

You may be right about that. If there is a proper way I haven't thought of it. There are also other problems with how it is currently constructed. But altering it just causes a different problem.

[dschingis27]

The problem is you need a system that works with players who play very different amounts of games. Arena leagues are not like real sports leagues.

Still I agree that the current system is flawed. But solving it for for a better system is not straight-forward.

[ChiefPointThief]

So I am currently playing against another familiar name and I decided to look up our results this season. This player is top 10 on the arena board. I am 11-3 on the season and have a net loss of -2 because they get anywhere from 3-5.5x more pts than me for their victories. This was actually more shocking than my other find because I’ve beat this player convincingly basically all season.

Then I looked up the #1 player (I’m 2nd) on the leaderboard to see our head to head this season. I’m 4-4. This player has a net gain vs me of +42.

I knew my score didn’t match my performance this season. This system is atrocious.