Remove from tournament games the ability to skip players out of time

[pjpatterson]

I have been kicked out twice because the other player either gamed the timezone system, or maybe just bad luck of timing, But I check regularly, except while sleeping - and the time ticks by then. In both cases, I was clearly taking the lead, and then suddenly kicked out. I don't believe we were in danger of delaying the tournament schedule - but maybe the losing player saw an opportunity to advance. Maybe the tournament format is just not for me - I prefer real time anyway. But with people on different time zones, a European player can check the game at 8am local time, take their turn, and then a US player loses 6 hours because they are asleep. And this can happen daily, adding up very quickly.
Perhaps each player should be able to designate a 6-8 hour window in which game time doesn't advance? Or make it less simple for a losing person to advance due to game delay alone.

[DrRockenheimer]

It would probably help a lot if there was an option to have active hours for tournaments, maybe 18 hours out of 24, such that when it is the middle of the day in the middle of the Pacific then nobody's clock is running. The bottom line right now is that most tournament time controls are probably too fast to avoid the time zone problem. Expecting all players to "be nice" or whatever in a competitive environment is not a realistic policy.

[MasterMystery]

tournaments have the option for play hours, time doesn't run outside of those. But there is no need that they kick you if tournament schedule runs out (total play times, players are anyway ranked by total time used)

[DrRockenheimer]

The only options for restricted playing hours are 12 hour windows. That is a great way to have fast play for players within nearby time zones. It does not help achieve a globally inclusive tournament, which under typical tournament time controls will often saddle an "outsider" with a clock time deficit because of the interplay of turn order and sleep time. Relying on clock time remaining for order of placement (rather than allowing kicking out players at negative time remaining) in a game that times out will never be fair either because that's just a different way to manipulate the system by strategically stalling out a game. That still might be better than the current system, but to actually solve the problem requires time controls that allow tournament games to finish on time with diligent play, regardless of turn order and global distribution of players.

[WIZWAR]

I would like to voice my agreement with those who think something needs to change. Just recently someone was merely 2 hours under the time limit and someone decided to skip him or her. There was only one move left in the game! There were still games going on in the tournament.

I've also been the victim of time zone problems once or twice but this last incident felt really ridiculous.

I don't think I'll be doing the tournament scene anymore after my other games finish up.

[katmk]

I also would agree with this.

I've never been in the position of running out of time in a tournament, personally, but I'd never choose to kick someone for their own clock running out if they're still obviously making moves. Timezone differences make it really hard for some to keep to the clock.

On a related note, when elimination games end this way, progression is almost always on the basis of 'oldest accounts', which is egregiously unfair. Removing the ability to skip players out of time would also remove that problem. Although I don't even understand how that is in place at all. Even a random draw would be better.

[beemystery]

I agree something needs to be done. Three recent instances:
#1 & #2: in a small 5 player tournament, our two games were ended by the same player because someone else (not me) was out of time. And that player was losing and had the highest ELO of the five of us. It sure seemed like an attempt to not be impacted by a loss. Both games were more than 80% complete with plenty of time left in the tournament.
#3: Different tournament/game, I had to travel unexpectedly, so I got behind in the clock. Opponent took their turn and then I'm the current player and within the same minute that player skipped my turn. What is worse is that I was online on BGA at the time, so it should have been evident that I would likely be getting to my turn shortly. Game was 70% complete.

In realtime games, the skip turn is very useful because I have had people disappear. But in a turn based game, when you have invested a lot of time into the game, it sure doesn't feel good when you're skipped and are only 5 minutes over on the clock. I don't have a good suggestion; the only idea I have is if you couldn't skip someone until they've had 24 hours of no action on their turn?

[Mathew5000]

Many of the issues could be resolved with one simple tweak:

1. A player who is out of time can be expelled only with the unanimous agreement of all players who are not out of time.

If BGA cares about addressing the problem of strategic booting in tournament games, that's the way to do it. There are a few additional tweaks I would like to see, but these other ones are either going to be controversial, difficult to code, or will create further issues:

2. Where a tournament game ends prematurely (either because an out-of-time player is booted or because the max game duration is reached), the rankings of the players not out-of-time are determined by current score at the moment the game ends. This applies to games like Catan and Wingspan that use victory points to determine winner, 2nd place, etc. For games that do not operate on victory points, a random draw is made to determine the rankings of the players not out-of-time. In any event, the end-of-game web page ought to transparently show why the final rankings are what they are.

3. Give tournament creators more flexibility in setting max game duration. At present there are options for 10 days, 15 days, and 30 days, but there should also be options for 20 days and 40 days.

4. Give tournament creators more flexibility in setting playing hours. At present, playing hours must consist of a 12-hour window such as 11:00 to 23:00. Why not allow an 8=hour window, or a 20-hour window? Ideally, I think tournament creators should be able to set any playing hours as long as the window is at least 6 hours a day. Also, please specify the time zone, everywhere that the hours are displayed. Also, when registering for a tournament with playing hours, the pop-up confirmation box should refer to the playing hours. Because I often see players who have registered for a tournament with playing hours that apparently don't suit them; perhaps they don't understand how the concept of playing hours works on BGA, or perhaps they did not notice the playing hours when they registered for the tournament.

[RobertBr]

Many of the issues could be resolved with one simple tweak:

Your first suggestion is a good one and would probably help a lot but it is not simple to implement (what would happen if two players were out of time and two players were not?). The third and fourth are probably good ideas. The second is a really bad idea, and would undoubtedly be open to abuse. The basic problem is that every knows this is a problem and has known since BGA implemented multi-player tournaments, but no-one has come up with a good robust solution that would justify the work BGA would have to put in to implement it.

[Zelva]

Number 2 is a really bad idea yes.

I don't know why for instance someone in Wingspan who went for a bonus cards strategy should be punished by taking the score prematurely.