I really feel that players that quit with just a few moves left are very rude. I understand if you reach the 50% mark and there is no way to make up this is acceptable. Wish they could be penalized for this, now I get penalized because I called them out
Players conceding just a few moves left when they know they are going to win
Discuss about anything!
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Sheba-leila
- Posts: 63
- Joined: 15 June 2022, 16:38
Re: Players conceding just a few moves left when they know they are going to win
Post by Sheba-leila »
Ich finde es auch unhöflich das Spiel aufzugeben. Ich möchte wieder wie es früher war das man zustimmen muß. Sollte es wirklich ein Notfall sein geht die Welt nicht unter wenn man 10 karmapunkte verliert. Nach 60 Tagen sieht man nichts mehr davon und es sind 10 Spiele dann hat man wieder 100%. Deshalb verstehe ich die Option nicht. Von mir gibt es für die Spieler einen roten Daumen. Was anderes kann man nicht machen.
- RicardoRix
- Posts: 2558
- Joined: 29 April 2012, 23:43
Re: Players conceding just a few moves left when they know they are going to win
Post by RicardoRix »
We need the translate button back.
I have a feeling that promise left with Een.
I have a feeling that promise left with Een.
Re: Players conceding just a few moves left when they know they are going to win
Why was there such a necrobump on this in the first place? lol.
Honestly, conceding before you lose is an amazing thing to do. If you see the game is already over, feel free to concede, it's the best thing you can do. It lets everyone get to playing a new game quicker where things aren't already determined. When I'm playing a game, I came here to play my opponent, not just watch the pieces move around. If the part where any serious decisions have already been made and the outcome is decided, I see no reason to just watch us go through the motions of wrapping it up.
Honestly, conceding before you lose is an amazing thing to do. If you see the game is already over, feel free to concede, it's the best thing you can do. It lets everyone get to playing a new game quicker where things aren't already determined. When I'm playing a game, I came here to play my opponent, not just watch the pieces move around. If the part where any serious decisions have already been made and the outcome is decided, I see no reason to just watch us go through the motions of wrapping it up.
Re: Players conceding just a few moves left when they know they are going to win
I have a completely different opinion on this the previous poster.
For me, a lot of the joy of board gaming comes from the process, not the outcome. Particularly in an engine-building euro game, where after you establish a great engine, it is great fun to run it and play the game through to the end, maybe even go for a new high score. When the opponent concedes, it can feel like your sandcastle has been kicked over. The fun ends and any chance of a high score is taken away. It also brings down your average stats in the game, which I know a lot of players like to track and take pride in. A lot of games (like Race for the Galaxy, where I see a lot of conceding) don’t even go on for long after the outcome is decided! Why not just play it out?
I can see the benefit in a game like chess, where I think the practice of conceding originated. It can be really dull and laborious to play through to an inevitable defeat, and there is no engine building - quite the opposite in fact.
Obviously the attitude around conceding varies greatly across gaming communities, and no one is right or wrong about it, but it’s good to respect the wishes of others. So please ask your opponent if they mind before you do it! They might not have the same opinion as you. Thanks.
For me, a lot of the joy of board gaming comes from the process, not the outcome. Particularly in an engine-building euro game, where after you establish a great engine, it is great fun to run it and play the game through to the end, maybe even go for a new high score. When the opponent concedes, it can feel like your sandcastle has been kicked over. The fun ends and any chance of a high score is taken away. It also brings down your average stats in the game, which I know a lot of players like to track and take pride in. A lot of games (like Race for the Galaxy, where I see a lot of conceding) don’t even go on for long after the outcome is decided! Why not just play it out?
I can see the benefit in a game like chess, where I think the practice of conceding originated. It can be really dull and laborious to play through to an inevitable defeat, and there is no engine building - quite the opposite in fact.
Obviously the attitude around conceding varies greatly across gaming communities, and no one is right or wrong about it, but it’s good to respect the wishes of others. So please ask your opponent if they mind before you do it! They might not have the same opinion as you. Thanks.
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- ↳ Lords of Xidit
- ↳ Pingimus
- ↳ Lost Seas
- ↳ 31
- ↳ Get on Board: New York & London
- ↳ Perudo
- ↳ Potions of Azerland
- ↳ Naishi
- ↳ The Boss
- ↳ Assyria
- ↳ Biomes of Nilgiris
- ↳ Belladone Bluff
- ↳ Shock! Knights & Poisons
- ↳ abalone
- ↳ After Us
- ↳ Scriptoria
- ↳ Cat in the Box: Deluxe Edition
- ↳ Mate
- ↳ Mijnlieff
- ↳ Arctic
- ↳ Mercado de Lisboa
- ↳ Oh-Seven
- ↳ 1000
- ↳ Legions
- ↳ Stupor Mundi
- ↳ Evo: The "Game no Name"
- ↳ Go-Stop
- ↳ Quartz: The Dice Game
- ↳ Festival
- ↳ Pyramido: Forgotten Treasures
- ↳ Pylos
- ↳ Cairo Corridor
- ↳ Giraffe Raffe
- ↳ Dice Theme Park
- ↳ Verso
- ↳ Fruit Picking
- ↳ Panda Rei
- ↳ Tang Hu Lu
- ↳ Botanicus
- ↳ Red7
- ↳ March of the Crab
- ↳ Lady's Choice
- ↳ Ninjan
- ↳ Misty
- ↳ Abra Chadabra
- ↳ VektoRace
- ↳ Lines of Action
- ↳ Sail
- ↳ Cuttle
- ↳ sparts
- ↳ Armadöra
- ↳ Tortuga 1667
- ↳ Gosu X
- ↳ River of Gold
- ↳ Jump Gate
- ↳ Odicey
- ↳ LUZ
- ↳ Samarkand
- ↳ Durak
- ↳ Wizards Cup
- ↳ Art Thief
- ↳ Kokeshi
- ↳ Lumen: The Lost World
- ↳ Go Fish
- ↳ Quetzal
- ↳ Golfie
- ↳ Dédale
- ↳ Resolve
- ↳ Envelopes of Cash
- ↳ Crisps
- ↳ Stalk exchange
- ↳ Sir Ocelot's cave
- ↳ Claim
- ↳ Shifting Stones
- ↳ Quarto
- ↳ Art Decko
- ↳ Age of Civilization
- ↳ Mesos
- ↳ Hidden Leaders
- ↳ Yokai
- ↳ Battle of LITS
- ↳ Conspiracy
- ↳ Dice Hospital: ER – Emergency Roll
- ↳ Let's Catch the Lion!
- ↳ Luxor
- ↳ Forks: 2nd Edition
- ↳ Color Pop
- ↳ Scratch and Catch
- ↳ Qu4to
- ↳ Cephalopod
- ↳ Tablut
- ↳ 12 Chip Trick
- ↳ Cucumber
- ↳ German Whist
- ↳ Shogun
- ↳ Oriflamme
- ↳ Bower
- ↳ Verona Twist
- ↳ Balloon Pop!
- ↳ None Shall Pass!
- ↳ District Noir
- ↳ It's a Wonderful Kingdom
- ↳ Refuge
- ↳ Seikatsu
- ↳ Applejack
- ↳ The Itty Bitty Card Game
- ↳ Treos
- ↳ Kulami
- ↳ Happy City
- ↳ Paper World
- ↳ Coin Age
- ↳ Roll Into Town
- ↳ The Hanging Gardens
- ↳ Dungeon Rummy
- ↳ Road to 300
- ↳ Circle of Life
- ↳ Kingscraft
- ↳ Caper: Europe
- ↳ President
- ↳ Gomoku
- ↳ GoldnCrash
- ↳ Takara Island
- ↳ Sherlock 13
- ↳ Choconnect
- ↳ Mapmaker: The Gerrymandering Game
- ↳ The Jelly Monster Lab
- ↳ Tiwanaku
- ↳ China Gold
- ↳ Ginkgopolis
- ↳ Mythicals the boardgame
- ↳ Seotda
- ↳ Dragon Castle
- ↳ Bug
- ↳ Bunny Drops
- ↳ Sfynx
- ↳ Classified Information
- ↳ Little Factory
- ↳ Metro
- ↳ Thurn and Taxis
- ↳ Cake Master
- ↳ Sneferu: Builders of the Pyramids
- ↳ Pocket Cats
- ↳ Orion Duel
- ↳ Propuh
- ↳ Piratas!
- ↳ Streetcar
- ↳ Mind Up!
- ↳ Blooms
- ↳ Diamonds
- ↳ The Last
- ↳ Con Sonar!
- ↳ Love Links
- ↳ Caravan
- ↳ Moon River
- ↳ Jekyll vs. Hyde
- ↳ Sergeant Major
- ↳ ECK
- ↳ Battlegammon
- ↳ Via Magica
- ↳ Newton
- ↳ EKONOS
- ↳ Mexica
- ↳ 42
- ↳ Cosmos: Empires
- ↳ Architects of Amytis
- ↳ Tiny Turbo Cars
- ↳ Ekko
- ↳ Kami
- ↳ Karvi
- ↳ Crazy Farmers
- ↳ Masters of Renaissance: Lorenzo il Magnifico – The Card Game
- ↳ Siam
- ↳ Aniversus
- ↳ Kabaleo
- ↳ Qamgo
- ↳ Hex
- ↳ Nibble
- ↳ Medina
- ↳ Room 25
- ↳ Duck & Cover
- ↳ Simplicity
- ↳ Buttons
- ↳ Big Two
- ↳ Kahuna
- ↳ Hadara
- ↳ Ynaros Fallin
- ↳ Skate Legend
- ↳ Finca
- ↳ Calypso
- ↳ Bacon
- ↳ Age of Champagne
- ↳ Tulip & Rose
- ↳ L'Oracle B.A-BET
- ↳ Ultimate Tic-Tac-Toe
- ↳ Battle Spirits Saga
- ↳ Veletas
- ↳ GOLDblivion
- ↳ Zola
- ↳ Quirky Quarks
- ↳ 99 (trick-taking card game)
- ↳ Elfenland
- ↳ Apocalypse au Zoo de Carson City
- ↳ High Season
- ↳ Flaming Pyramids
- ↳ Oxono
- ↳ Equinox
- ↳ Connect6
- ↳ Illustori
- ↳ Sahwari
- ↳ Dicy Cards
- ↳ Geek Out! Masters
- ↳ The Gnomes of Zavandor
- ↳ Forever Home
- ↳ Neom
- ↳ SetUp
- ↳ Steam Works
- ↳ On Tour
- ↳ Spring Cleaning
- ↳ Ice and the Sky
- ↳ Zefiria
- ↳ Konane
- ↳ Homesteaders
- ↳ The King's Guild
- ↳ 3000 Scoundrels
- ↳ Florenza: The Card Game
- ↳ Thermopyles
- ↳ The Fox in the Forest: Duet
- ↳ Power Vacuum
- ↳ Vault A Den of Thieves
- ↳ Coal Baron
- ↳ Unrest
- ↳ Okanagan: Valley of the Lakes
- ↳ Nacho Pile
- ↳ Hack Trick
- ↳ Sobek
- ↳ Yaniv
- ↳ Almadi
- ↳ Romi Rami
- ↳ Forage
- ↳ Batalla de Coronas
- ↳ Solar Storm
- ↳ Loco Momo
- ↳ Cardiceo
- ↳ GrumbleStone
- ↳ Trike
- ↳ Legendary Inventors
- ↳ Koryŏ
- ↳ That's Life!
- ↳ Lielow
- ↳ Dark Agent
- ↳ Flowers: A Mandala Game
- ↳ Solo Whist
- ↳ Copenhagen
- ↳ HUND
- ↳ Flip Freighters
- ↳ Sapiens
- ↳ Boreal
- ↳ Eminent Domain: Microcosm
- ↳ Maps of Misterra
- ↳ Micro Midgard
- ↳ All In
- ↳ OASIS New Hope
- ↳ Castles of Caleira
- ↳ Goblin Hood
- ↳ For the King (and Me)
- ↳ Starship Merchants
- ↳ Evergreen
- ↳ Boomerang: Australia
- ↳ Once Upon A Forest
- ↳ Megalomania
- ↳ Caribbean All Fours
- ↳ Cradle to Grave
- ↳ Le Roy des Ribauds
- ↳ Palace
- ↳ Dice Summoners
- ↳ Divercité
- ↳ The Battle for Hill 218
- ↳ Yokai Septet
- ↳ Astra
- ↳ Insert
- ↳ Niagara
- ↳ gaia
- ↳ Number Drop
- ↳ Rest In Peace
- ↳ Vidrasso
- ↳ The Ruhr: A Story of Coal Trade
- ↳ United Square
- ↳ Noir: Killer versus Inspector
- ↳ Diced Tomatoes
- ↳ The Builders: Antiquity
- ↳ Meridians
- ↳ Barbu
- ↳ Dinosaur Tea Party
- ↳ Origin
- ↳ Exit Strategy
- ↳ Boss Quest
- ↳ Expedition: Northwest Passage
- ↳ Through the Ages
- ↳ 24/7: The Game
- ↳ Whist 22
- ↳ Gift of Tulips
- ↳ Volfyirion Guilds
- ↳ Zuuli
- ↳ FIKA
- ↳ Don't Go In There
- ↳ Humanity
- ↳ Neutreeko
- ↳ Hawaii
- ↳ Xanadu
- ↳ Murus Gallicus
- ↳ Colorado
- ↳ Secret Moon
- ↳ Diablo
- ↳ Nain Jaune
- ↳ HUGO
- ↳ Robots Ate Our Pizza
- ↳ I'm The Boss
- ↳ Empire Plateau: The Lateral Thinking Tactical Strategy Wargame
- ↳ Micro Dojo
- ↳ Ghost At Home
- ↳ Rift Valley Reserve
- ↳ Legend Raiders
- ↳ Betta
- ↳ Streets
- ↳ cucco
- ↳ Hypnosia
- ↳ Mia
- ↳ Crime Zoom: A Dirty Objective
- ↳ Oust
- ↳ Line It
- ↳ Crypt
- ↳ Silo
- ↳ Knockout Whist
- ↳ Legends of Hellas
- ↳ Las Vegan
- ↳ Raubbau
- ↳ Tucano
- ↳ Lifeline
- ↳ Rive
- ↳ Sensei
- ↳ Hungarian Tarokk
- ↳ Impasse
- ↳ Drones vs Seagulls
- ↳ Stir Fry Eighteen
- ↳ Trusis
- ↳ Gosu
- ↳ Look at the Stars
- ↳ Schrödinger's Cats
- ↳ Cubosaurs
- ↳ Canosa
- ↳ Hydroracers
- ↳ Yin Yang
- ↳ Fairy Trails
- ↳ Veggie Garden
- ↳ mow
- ↳ 8 Masters' Revenge
- ↳ Noah
- ↳ Amyitis
- ↳ Injawara
- ↳ Regidice
- ↳ Factum
- ↳ Kingdoms
- ↳ Baby Dinosaur Rescue
- ↳ Vege Tables
- ↳ Egocentric World
- ↳ EpiZodiak
- ↳ Blue Skies
- ↳ Fai-fo
- ↳ Sobek 2 players
- ↳ Senshi
- ↳ Big Monster
- ↳ Small Islands
- ↳ Lineae
- ↳ Mascarade
- ↳ Dragon Keeper: The Dungeon
- ↳ Icebreaker
- ↳ Yspahan
- ↳ Iwari
- ↳ Nicodemus
- ↳ Eruption
- ↳ Troyes Dice
- ↳ Morocco
- ↳ SteamRollers
- ↳ Blaze
- ↳ Exploration: Warzone
- ↳ Tea Time
- ↳ Zener
- ↳ Penalty Challenge
- ↳ EVL
- ↳ Lost Explorers
- ↳ Herrlof
- ↳ Turn the tide
- ↳ Off the Rails
- ↳ Krosmaster Blast
- ↳ Grand Bazaar
- ↳ Grosstarock
- ↳ Trick of the Rails
- ↳ Rolled West
- ↳ NXS
- ↳ Hoarders
- ↳ Saint Poker
- ↳ Bombay
- ↳ Nautilus
- ↳ Cinco
- ↳ Gopher
- ↳ The Void
- ↳ Metromania
- ↳ Guildes
- ↳ KQJ
- ↳ Phat
- ↳ Penny Press
- ↳ Quantik
- ↳ Mammalath
- ↳ Uncle Chestnut's Table Gype
- ↳ ToeShamBo
- ↳ Biyi
- ↳ Nanga Parbat
- ↳ Diam's
- ↳ Coup
- ↳ Gear & Piston
- ↳ GORami
- ↳ Dragon Line
- ↳ Outlaws: Last Man Standing
- ↳ Tiki
- ↳ Gygès
- ↳ Khronos
- ↳ Outlaws: Last Man Standing
- ↳ 15 Days
- ↳ 15 Jours en France
- ↳ 216
- ↳ 5Pairs
- ↳ A Fistful of Gold
- ↳ APEX
- ↳ AVES
- ↳ Abroad
- ↳ Alakablast
- ↳ All You Can Eat Buffet
- ↳ Amazonas
- ↳ Apocalypse au Zoo de Carson City
- ↳ Arabella
- ↳ Archipels
- ↳ Arctica
- ↳ Atrah
- ↳ Auntie Mildred's list of random tasks
- ↳ Aurum
- ↳ Azul: Stained Glass of Sintra
- ↳ Bamboozle
- ↳ Battleships Pencil & Paper
- ↳ Bauer
- ↳ Bebop
- ↳ Bids
- ↳ Black Narrows
- ↳ Blast Radius
- ↳ Block Arena
- ↳ Blooms
- ↳ Blot
- ↳ Breadcrumbs
- ↳ Bug Off
- ↳ Bunny Boom
- ↳ Bus
- ↳ Bye-Bye Black Sheep
- ↳ CATsle Builder
- ↳ Cannonades
- ↳ Capybara'n'Capyabara
- ↳ Carcassonne
- ↳ Cassino
- ↳ Catopomp
- ↳ Chandigarh
- ↳ Cheez-Tricks
- ↳ Chicken!
- ↳ Churn
- ↳ Circadia
- ↳ Circle Of Life: on the Savannah
- ↳ Civolution
- ↳ Class of 89'
- ↳ Coins
- ↳ Coloretto
- ↳ Confusing Lands
- ↳ Cookie battle
- ↳ Crash
- ↳ Crits & Tricks
- ↳ Custodian Dice
- ↳ Dale of Merchants
- ↳ Dance of Muses
- ↳ Deck EXPRESS: Tennessee Central
- ↳ Deck EXPRESS: Tennessee Central
- ↳ Deliverance
- ↳ Deluxe Camping
- ↳ Detective Poker
- ↳ Dickory
- ↳ Digging For Dinos
- ↳ Dobro
- ↳ Draft Cider
- ↳ Dragon Keeper, The Dungeon
- ↳ Dragonarium
- ↳ Déjà Vu
- ↳ Echoes of Time
- ↳ Edgecut
- ↳ Electrify
- ↳ Enemy Anemone
- ↳ Eriantys
- ↳ Expeditions
- ↳ Expressions
- ↳ Falconry
- ↳ Fall of Lumen
- ↳ Fantasy Tiles
- ↳ Fate: Defenders of Grimheim
- ↳ Festi’vibes
- ↳ Fibonachos
- ↳ Fight the Landlord
- ↳ Finity
- ↳ Five Three Five
- ↳ Flipwars
- ↳ Flume
- ↳ For-Ex
- ↳ Forest Shuffle : Smoky Mountains
- ↳ Forfort
- ↳ Four Gardens
- ↳ Fox on the Tree
- ↳ Friendly Fishing
- ↳ Fugu
- ↳ GIPF
- ↳ Game of Trains
- ↳ Garden Geckos
- ↳ Garden Nation
- ↳ Gems of Iridescia
- ↳ Get on Board: Paris & Roma
- ↳ Get the MacGuffin
- ↳ Go_sandboxversion
- ↳ Golden Goal
- ↳ Golems
- ↳ Good Fortune
- ↳ Greasy Spoon
- ↳ Group
- ↳ Grund
- ↳ Guile
- ↳ Gyges
- ↳ Hadron
- ↳ Hawaiian Hanafuda
- ↳ Heckin Hounds
- ↳ Hegemony Of Faith
- ↳ Herooj
- ↳ Hey! That's my fish
- ↳ Hypnosia
- ↳ Hội Phố (Second Edition)
- ↳ Inkwell
- ↳ Invector
- ↳ Isaac
- ↳ Isle of Bears
- ↳ Journey Horizon
- ↳ Kaiser
- ↳ Kani Nari Ebi
- ↳ Kelp
- ↳ Khronos
- ↳ Kinapa
- ↳ King of the Dice
- ↳ Kmakici Family's greatest teatime
- ↳ Knister
- ↳ Kraken Up
- ↳ Lata
- ↳ Les toits de Paris
- ↳ Lewis & Clark
- ↳ Libertalia: Winds of Galecrest
- ↳ Linkx
- ↳ Livingstone
- ↳ Logger
- ↳ Lunar
- ↳ Maatatahay
- ↳ Malabares
- ↳ Mango
- ↳ Maquis
- ↳ Mattock
- ↳ Meadow
- ↳ Metz
- ↳ Microlonies
- ↳ Mighty
- ↳ Minefield
- ↳ Minhwatu
- ↳ Mod Ten
- ↳ Monster Factory
- ↳ Monster Hex
- ↳ Monster Smash
- ↳ Moolight: The Land of the Wolves
- ↳ Mutant Crops
- ↳ Nap
- ↳ Narabi
- ↳ Neon Reign
- ↳ Next Station: Berlin
- ↳ Nice to Know! Animals
- ↳ Nylon-ppong
- ↳ ONE
- ↳ Odysseus
- ↳ Odéon
- ↳ Olenon
- ↳ Onda
- ↳ Open Season
- ↳ POP!
- ↳ Paikō
- ↳ Paladins of the West Kingdom
- ↳ Palourde
- ↳ Panda Panda
- ↳ Park Life
- ↳ Penny Press
- ↳ Persona Non Grata
- ↳ Pescado Novo
- ↳ Petals
- ↳ Piepmatz
- ↳ Pier 18
- ↳ PiliPiliExtraSpicy
- ↳ Pioneer Rails
- ↳ Pirates Under Fire
- ↳ Point City
- ↳ Pook
- ↳ Positano
- ↳ Puerto Rico
- ↳ Quest Inc.
- ↳ Quiltable
- ↳ Quinque
- ↳ Quintus
- ↳ Quorum
- ↳ RIVALS
- ↳ RabbitZ & Robots
- ↳ Race for the Galaxy
- ↳ Redstone
- ↳ Relative Space
- ↳ Road Master
- ↳ Room and Pillar
- ↳ Roppyakken
- ↳ Rowdy Partners
- ↳ Rumble Planet
- ↳ Safari Witness
- ↳ Savanna Ten
- ↳ Schadenfreude
- ↳ Scratch and Catch
- ↳ Scream Park
- ↳ Sea Shells
- ↳ Seven Knights Bewitched
- ↳ Sheep Boom Bah
- ↳ Skirmish: Battle for Draconia
- ↳ Sky Totems
- ↳ Skybirds
- ↳ Sobek 2 players
- ↳ Soulaween
- ↳ Speculaas
- ↳ Spellcrafter
- ↳ Splitter
- ↳ Squadro
- ↳ Stigméria
- ↳ Stonks
- ↳ Strategic Reserve
- ↳ Strawberry Sunset
- ↳ Sunfield Farm
- ↳ Sunrise Sunset
- ↳ Suspeição
- ↳ Take Time
- ↳ Tamago Dorobou
- ↳ Tangram City
- ↳ Tannhäuser
- ↳ Tapas
- ↳ The Battle for Hill 218
- ↳ The Great American Fox Hunt
- ↳ The Great Split
- ↳ The Happiest Cat in the World
- ↳ The King of the Woods
- ↳ The Little Flower Shop
- ↳ The Nine Domains
- ↳ The Oracle of Delphi
- ↳ The White Castle Duel
- ↳ Tholos
- ↳ Thrive
- ↳ Tien Len
- ↳ Time Splicers
- ↳ Tiny Farms
- ↳ Toepen
- ↳ Tokaido Duo
- ↳ Tomatoss
- ↳ TriATri
- ↳ Trick-n-Chef
- ↳ Trickarus
- ↳ Troggu
- ↳ Tsukimi
- ↳ Twin Palms
- ↳ Two-Ten-Jack
- ↳ Ultimatch
- ↳ Unane
- ↳ Up or Down?
- ↳ Vegetable Stock
- ↳ Verdant Arizona
- ↳ Via Gladiola
- ↳ Vivo
- ↳ Vizia
- ↳ Voyages
- ↳ Waddle
- ↳ Wana
- ↳ Whist
- ↳ Widgets n' Digit$
- ↳ Wild Space
- ↳ Word Traveler
- ↳ Xxung
- ↳ Yoxii
- ↳ Zookeepers
- ↳ a_way
- ↳ niwashi
- ↳ Àiyé
- ↳ Écarté