why on line gamers are so impatient?

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Silene
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Re: why on line gamers are so impatient?

Post by Silene »

Cile wrote: 27 August 2023, 08:16 I believe the current solution is a "Time bank" that holds up to 3x the turn time. If you use less then the time limit per turn you bank the extra, if you use more you use up part of your bank.

So if there's an issue and you get booted from the game at -0:01 you didn't get booted for going a second over the turn limit, you went three times over the turn limit. If someone has gone three times longer than the turn time without an action it's fair to boot them. You don't know if they're coming back in 5 seconds or not at all.
Yes and this is already implemented as default for all games.

The problem is people treat the time bank like their normal time and ask for more. If you increase the time bank, people will again use it up as their allowed time and then ask for more.
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Cile
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Re: why on line gamers are so impatient?

Post by Cile »

Silene wrote: 30 August 2023, 10:03
Cile wrote: 27 August 2023, 08:16 I believe the current solution is a "Time bank" that holds up to 3x the turn time. If you use less then the time limit per turn you bank the extra, if you use more you use up part of your bank.

So if there's an issue and you get booted from the game at -0:01 you didn't get booted for going a second over the turn limit, you went three times over the turn limit. If someone has gone three times longer than the turn time without an action it's fair to boot them. You don't know if they're coming back in 5 seconds or not at all.
Yes and this is already implemented as default for all games.

The problem is people treat the time bank like their normal time and ask for more. If you increase the time bank, people will again use it up as their allowed time and then ask for more.
Yup. Currently in a 1 move per day game with a player that is taking 30 hours to take their turns. That is absurd. Checking in once every 24 hours is not a big ask, and if you aren't able to manage that then you shouldn't be joining a 1 move per day table and should be joining 1 move every 2 days table.

The frequency at which this has been happening to me at various tables makes me very opposed to any changes that would give this player more time before I can boot them and try again. Another player "donating" time is not fair if the 2 other players would like this game to move along at the agreed upon pace. Personally I think the time bank is much too large at 3 days for a 1 move per day game and would like it reduced to 2 days.
Yes, sometimes life happens, but I have been at tables where a player consistently took 30hours+ to take their turn every turn until they ran out of time. That's not life happening, that's people being inconsiderate of everyone else at the table.

I understand Ark Nova seems to have an issue with it's last turn and these concerns should probably be brought up on the Ark Nova Forum, but until a change is implemented there my advice is the same: Be aware of how much time you need to take your turn (even if it's just the last turn of the game) and join tables that give you the time you need.
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cigma
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Re: why on line gamers are so impatient?

Post by cigma »

Trouncing wrote: 27 August 2023, 08:38 I made a more clear dev request here https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=96937 if you are interested.
Please remeber, all requests should be single ones, so they can be discussed and voted for separately and the task status can be set properly. Your suggestion 1.) is basically the same as https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=96914, thus it were useful to say in the report that it's a duplicate and add the link.
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SquashEngineer
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Re: why on line gamers are so impatient?

Post by SquashEngineer »

No big deal for me. I usually play turn based, 1 or 2 plays per day. Take your time. I have 50 games active at once. Surely one of them will be ready when I get back to my phone. I dabble in the red myself from time to time. I rarely, if ever, get timed out.

I’m with the forgiving, casual gamer group on BGA.
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Cile
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Re: why on line gamers are so impatient?

Post by Cile »

SquashEngineer wrote: 01 September 2023, 13:22 ...I have 50 games active at once.
... I dabble in the red myself from time to time.
This is exactly the problem.

I have no desire to play 50 different games at a time. I want to be at a couple of tables where I can keep track of the games and give them an appropriate level of attention. When I join an X time per turn table I am agreeing to make my moves within X time, and I expect the other players that join the table to extend the same courtesy. Regularly using up your time bank because you joined a table that you are unable to meet the time commitment for is frankly rude to everyone else at the table.

I wish more users of BGA would expel players who exceed their turn limits. Sometimes while waiting for an opponent to time out I take a look at their profile and see they are in 10+ games and have hit the red in more than half of them. If they got expelled from all of those games maybe they would join tables they can actually keep up with instead of joining anything that's open and expecting everyone else at the table to slow down to the speed they are playing at, instead of the speed the table was set to.

I would love to have the option when creating a table to limit it by how many recent games player's have run out of time in instead of by Karma, or to be able to reduce the time of the size bank so I don't have to wait as long to expel a player that is taking 1.5x the turn time every turn.
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nik592
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Re: why on line gamers are so impatient?

Post by nik592 »

Cile wrote: 02 September 2023, 20:19 I wish more users of BGA would expel players who exceed their turn limits. Sometimes while waiting for an opponent to time out I take a look at their profile and see they are in 10+ games and have hit the red in more than half of them. If they got expelled from all of those games maybe they would join tables they can actually keep up with instead of joining anything that's open and expecting everyone else at the table to slow down to the speed they are playing at, instead of the speed the table was set to.
I also wish players would stick to their time limits. However, I'd also rather play games. My preferred speed is 4 turns per day - actually it'd probably be faster, but my being in Australia makes timezone limitation less appealing. I would exclude a lot of players by forcing my playing hours on them (or so I assume because I've never seen a game with playing hours that doesn't extend well into my night time), or probably hit players who'd regularly run over time because they don't understand the playing hours. For a game that doesn't get a lot of players, I will happily accept a game that's 1 turn per day, rather than not playing at all. While I don't like it when a player regularly exceeds their time limits, booting the player and looking for another game can sometimes mean 3 days of no game at all. While it's annoying that people aren't sticking to what they signed up for, someone who takes 9 or even 12 hours per turn instead of 6 hours is still playing around the 2-3 turns per day limit. So that's why I'm reasonably generous with my booting - a player basically has to disappear for a good few days before I decide they're not coming back.

I actually think your suggestion of being able to exclude players based on time penalties is a good one - moreso than the other thread that wants to limit based on number of simultaneous games. That said, time penalties and even bootings aren't quite the indicator you think they are with the problems with time limits around tournaments. I DON'T dabble in the red, but I unfortunately run with a bunch of time penalties and a few bootings because time limits in tournaments are fixed, very limited for tournament creators and generally run a bit short, depending on timezones of the involved players.
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Cile
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Re: why on line gamers are so impatient?

Post by Cile »

If I could reasonably expect players to play within the time frame of the table I would be more willing to join slower tables if I see they have players. Currently I play 1move/day because I know I that is a commitment I can keep regardless of anything that might happen at work. My preferred would probably by 3moves/day but I can't commit to that as sometimes my schedule wouldn't allow me to take my turn within 8 hours, and I'm not going to sign up for a game if I'm not sure I can meet the time commitments. Right now I refuse to touch 1move/2days games because I'll end up with players taking 3-4 days to take their turns.

I currently have a 1move/day game going where 2 of my opponents are taking 30-40 hours to take their turns. That means I'm going 5 days between turns as it is. I'd rather wait 5 days for a game with opponents that will take their turn at a reasonable pace, than 5 days waiting for my turn, another 5, another 5, then get sick of waiting and eject a player.
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nik592
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Re: why on line gamers are so impatient?

Post by nik592 »

And therein lies the problem really. If you're playing 1 turn per day games, then an extra 50% on the time is a 12 hour wait, but if you're doing 4 turns per day, an extra 50% is only 3 hours. The latter is obviously quite a bit less frustrating and obviously more worth the wait, especially on games where it takes days to get a table started - even if all three players take an extra 3 hours, that's just over a day between turns for me, vs up to 5 as you say for yourself. So it's a very different value proposition and I understand your frustration.

There is a 2 turns per day setting, as well, which you don't mention, but I'm assuming may not work for you either.

The other point that someone on the forums once pointed out to me is that while 4 turns per day is "take your turn within 6 hours", it also gives 6 hours to each player, which in a 4 player game may mean that I actually only get 1 turn per day. It may be worth signing up for a game or two at a faster speed and see what happens with you only coming on once per 12/24 hours, however often you do - I suspect you'll find you don't run over anyway. And depending on how often you expect work to mean you can't take a turn within 8 hours, well, that is what the time bank is there for. While I get that you don't want to have to use it, if you're using it once or twice per game, by let's say 4 hours at a time, that's still a LOT better than someone consistently taking 1.5x turn time each game, and I don't think you should feel bothered about using it. Life happens, most players respect that. But the net result of using the time bank sometimes may be a less frustrating gaming experience for you.
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Cile
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Re: why on line gamers are so impatient?

Post by Cile »

Ya, the time bank should scale differently on longer games. There should be no need for it to exceed an extra 24 hours for any game length.

My concern with "6 hours to take your turn" is that if I'm asleep I won't be taking my turn within 6 hours. Sure, it will be longer that 6 hours between my turns, but I can't control when the player before me will take their turn and it might end up becoming my turn just after I fall asleep.

I should try playing faster tables more often, but 1turn/day is currently my happy place. I don't feel rushed to take my turn if I just woke up and have things I need to take care of, and I'm fine with my opponents dipping into the time bank on occasion. The problem is there are just too many people who can't even manage playing once a day and just expect others to tolerate them "dipping into the red" instead of joining a slower table.
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nik592
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Re: why on line gamers are so impatient?

Post by nik592 »

I've never played close enough attention, but I suspect that happens to me. But I then check several times a day during the day, and some turns are played within an hour of the previous player, and your time bank actually replenishes. I usually run at a full time bank most of the time, probably except for just after sleeping, and never hit red as I said. I mean, everyone has to sleep and probably take an 8+ hour break from BGA, so even at the 6 hours per turn speed, I doubt anyone is expecting you to stick to it for every single turn. But up to you.
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