why on line gamers are so impatient?

[Trouncing]

I made a more clear dev request here https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=96937 if you are interested.

Please remeber, all requests should be single ones, so they can be discussed and voted for separately and the task status can be set properly. Your suggestion 1.) is basically the same as https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=96914, thus it were useful to say in the report that it's a duplicate and add the link.

Thank you to Shivaware for rehashing this issue - https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=96914
I had forgotten bugs and suggestions exist for this site after being away for a while

And I made a slew of solutions here by me because I forgot - https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=96937

Which are separated by suggestion of cigma at the following links

1.) Green "Donate to players out of time" button.
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=96914 (Shivaware)


2.) Break up the turn time into phases where applicable.
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=97443


3.) Make "Skip players out of time" a vote.
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=97445


4.) Add a category to red thumb called "out of time abuse".
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=97446

[Pascal28]

Bonjour,
Je réponds en français....
Je pense qu'il faut envisager de retirer des points de réputation au joueurs ou joueuses qui utilisent trop souvent l'éjection pour dépassement de temps.
A BGA de voir comment le gérer, mais pour certain c'est leur moyen de ne pas perdre leur partie. On a toutes et tous eu des impératifs nous empêchant d'accéder à BGA et c'est très frustrant d'être éjecté alors que la partie est avancée et que l'on dépassé les 70% de la partie.
En conclusion, laissez jouer et n'éjecter qu'en cas d'abus. A BGA de réfléchir à modifier les règles

[Cile]

Bonjour,
Je réponds en français....
Je pense qu'il faut envisager de retirer des points de réputation au joueurs ou joueuses qui utilisent trop souvent l'éjection pour dépassement de temps.
A BGA de voir comment le gérer, mais pour certain c'est leur moyen de ne pas perdre leur partie. On a toutes et tous eu des impératifs nous empêchant d'accéder à BGA et c'est très frustrant d'être éjecté alors que la partie est avancée et que l'on dépassé les 70% de la partie.
En conclusion, laissez jouer et n'éjecter qu'en cas d'abus. A BGA de réfléchir à modifier les règles

Clumsy Google Translate of my post, English to follow:

Je suis fortement en désaccord. Il est impossible d'"abuser" du bouton "éjecter le joueur", car ce bouton n'est disponible que si un joueur a abusé de son temps de tour. Si un tour dure X minutes, vous disposez d'une banque de temps de 3x pour effectuer votre déplacement. Si quelqu'un vous éjecte à -00:01, vous n'avez pas dépassé d'une seconde votre temps de tour, vous avez utilisé 3 fois votre temps de tour au cours des deux derniers tours. Vous ne jouez pas à la vitesse de la table que vous aviez convenue lors de votre inscription. Il est raisonnable pour un joueur de vouloir terminer la partie plus tôt alors qu’il s’attendait à jouer dans les délais prévus, mais cela ne se produit pas. Il est impossible de savoir s’ils vous ont retiré pour éviter une défaite ou parce que le jeu prenait trop de temps.

Si vous ne voulez pas que les joueurs puissent vous expulser du jeu, la solution est simple : jouez votre tour dans le temps imparti. Si vous voulez que votre adversaire doive attendre encore une minute avant d'être autorisé à vous éjecter, jouez en "Vitesse normale" au lieu de "Vitesse rapide" (une minute supplémentaire de banque de temps) ou en "Vitesse lente" au lieu de "Vitesse normale" ( 1 minute 40 secondes supplémentaires de banque de temps). Les outils existent déjà pour ce qui est demandé, il n'est pas nécessaire d'introduire des « correctifs » maladroits pour qu'un joueur puisse rejoindre une table « rapide » et prendre des tours « normaux ».

Oui, il y a parfois des bugs dans le système ou des problèmes réels apparaissent. C'est là qu'intervient l'option « Proposer d'abandonner collectivement le jeu ». Si cela ne fonctionne pas, alors rien d'autre proposé n'empêchera un joueur de vous éjecter du jeu, il attend juste plus longtemps pour le faire.

English:

I strongly disagree. It is impossible to "abuse" the 'eject player' button, because that button is only available if a player has been abusing their turn time. If a turn is X minutes long, you have a time bank of 3x to make your move. If someone ejects you at -00:01 you are not 1 second over your turn time, you have used up 3 times your turn time over the past couple turns. You are not playing at the speed of the table you agreed to when you joined. It is reasonable for a player to want to end the game early when they were expecting to play in a timely fashion and that is not happening. It is impossible to tell if they removed you to avoid a loss, or because the game was taking too long.

If you don't want players to be able to eject you from the game the solution is simple: Take your turns withing the allotted time. If you want your opponent to have to wait another minute before they are allowed to eject you play on "Normal speed" instead of "fast speed" (an extra minute of Time Bank) or "Slow Speed" instead of "Normal Speed" (an extra 1 minute 40 seconds of Time Bank). The tools already exist for what is being asked for, there is no need to introduce clumsy 'fixes' so that a player can join a "Fast" table and take "Normal" turn lengths.

Yes, sometimes there are bugs in the system or real life issues pop up. That is where the option to "Propose to collectively abandon the game" comes in. If that doesn't work then nothing else proposed is going to stop a player from ejecting you from the game, they are just waiting longer to do so.

[Fuchur]

hi everybody,

i agree that there must be a way of ejecting players who aren't returning, but I'm not sure that the way it is implemented in BGA is working the way it should.
Personally i try to avoid this option and use it only in extreme cases : I just ended one table where the player wasn't there since 11 days. I wouldn't even bother in this case if i had un arbitrary large number of open tables at my disposition -- which isn't the case right now
Sometimes the clock-mechanism doesn't seem to work right : The same player was ejected in another table, leaving me as the only player there -- now my clock shows minus 5 days but the table was never in my list of tables to play at !? https://boardgamearena.com/9/splendor?table=409290285

My principal objection is the problem with time-zones : Imagine a table where the other players get on BGA just after i've finished my moves and went to bed. On normal week-days i won't be able to return to the site before the next evening. So while each of the other players uses less than an hour, my clock will turn more than 18 hours -- for each turn. In this case i will run rather quickly out of time and depend on the forgiveness of the others.

[nik592]

My principal objection is the problem with time-zones : Imagine a table where the other players get on BGA just after i've finished my moves and went to bed. On normal week-days i won't be able to return to the site before the next evening. So while each of the other players uses less than an hour, my clock will turn more than 18 hours -- for each turn. In this case i will run rather quickly out of time and depend on the forgiveness of the others.

In which case you play with the appropriate speed. If you're only getting on BGA once per day, you probably want to play at 1 or 2 turns per day maximum (2 turns per day is probably fine in a 3+ player setting). I personally check in with BGA at least 3 times per day, and usually more - once in the morning, once after I get home from work and usually before going to bed. I also often check at lunch and sometimes may check at other times. I tend to play at 4 turns per day speed. So yes, every now and again, I get a turn just after going to bed, and maybe I sleep in because it's the weekend, so it might be 12 hours between turns, but that happens maybe a couple of times per game, and likely I will be on several times during the day after that late start so will end up getting back to full time bank by the end of the day/the next day. I think I may have had one time penalty from a standard (non-tournament game), across 2700+ games.

Tournament play, which uses fixed time limits (as in you get 48 hours at the start of your game and that's it, no top-ups), is rife with timezone issues, and people there are often booted while still actively playing and at very late stages in the game, which is clearly to enable someone else to not lose (although the way neutralised tables are handled doesn't guarantee that person doesn't get eliminated from the tournament anyway). But that's a whole other topic and addressed over in those forums. Personally, I don't see any issue with the time limits/ejection settings in standard play - so long as people choose the correct speed for how often they're checking in, there should be no problems.

[Jellby]

The only problem I see is with 4-turn-per-day setting. If times align badly, it means you have 6 hours to make your move, which is less than the let's say recommended 8-hour sleep. So my suggestion would be (or has been, I think I created a report some time ago) that 4-turn-per-day settings should have playing hours, like the faster settings. Other than that, as said above, it's all a matter of choosing the speed that best matches your availability.

[nik592]

The only problem I see is with 4-turn-per-day setting. If times align badly, it means you have 6 hours to make your move, which is less than the let's say recommended 8-hour sleep. So my suggestion would be (or has been, I think I created a report some time ago) that 4-turn-per-day settings should have playing hours, like the faster settings. Other than that, as said above, it's all a matter of choosing the speed that best matches your availability.

I live in Australia, my playing hours almost never align. The best I think I see is something like a 3pm to 3am window (which for me is more like a 3pm-12am window). I could start games with my preferred playing hours of course, but I doubt people would join them, given that no one else seems to be creating them. And most of my opponents are coming from EU or US regions so my timezone is always going to conflict.

That said, as I noted, I barely ever go over time in a 4 turns per day non-tournament game. Where timezones do matter, that is, in tournament games, I often go over time unfortunately, but I like to think that providing I am playing regularly, my opponents would rather finish the game than boot me just to win (which is usually, though not always the case).

So I'd say please no playing hours on 4 turn per day games, or I'm reduced to accepting 3 turns per day only. Well, to be fair, I probably would still do 4 turns per day, as I think I could get in 4 turns in the 3pm-12am window, but my choices would be severely reduced. I would argue that I could probably easily do 6 or 8 turns per day in a game with no playing hours, but I definitely can't guarantee 8 turns in a maximum 9 hour window, so I have to avoid games with playing hours at present.

And while going over time happens when the time between turns is less than 8 hours and people have to sleep, you get time back when you take turns more quickly. I often run at full time bank in games, except probably in the earlier part of the day, that is, just after sleeping. But never into the red, and the time is easily caught up.

[Jellby]

Playing hours don't limit the hours during which you can play, they only limit the hours during which your clock ticks. So, if you can manage 4 turns per day without playing hours, you can surely manage with (except for the possible effect playing hours may have in changing other players' behaviour).

[nik592]

Playing hours don't limit the hours during which you can play, they only limit the hours during which your clock ticks. So, if you can manage 4 turns per day without playing hours, you can surely manage with (except for the possible effect playing hours may have in changing other players' behaviour).

True enough. That is basically what I said, that I would still play 4 turns per day with playing hours, as I'm sure I would get my turns in - and as you say, it's no different. So maybe it doesn't limit me that much, though it would force me to take stabs at what represents reasonable playing hours to attract players when I setup games.

[Jellby]

Anyway, that was just a suggestion that will probably never be implemented