Game abusing and proper dealing with it. How exactly? Admin's opinion about what should I do next?

Tournaments organization / Organisation des tournois
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Jeff de Matiss
Posts: 7
Joined: 24 June 2021, 22:11

Game abusing and proper dealing with it. How exactly? Admin's opinion about what should I do next?

Post by Jeff de Matiss »

I feel really sorry that my first ever writing on the forum is going to be a complain about anyhing, but here we go.

I am playing here for several years and consider myself very modest about any type of speaking on the site usually. However, lately there are some players and type of behaviour in tournament games that I cannot understand, nor I can tolerate and stand anymore. Some players are taking this way too far when no one punishes them and it just feels they are invincible. Red thumbs, speaking with tournament masters, asking these individuals directly... Nothing ever helps! They think themselves above any type of a moral system and rules of fairplay.

The situation I am going for all of this happened couple days ago. Catan game, tournament game of a fairly casual type, 4 players, open chat. As you know, some people (for obvious real-life reasons) cannot play that fast so turns in games are sometimes a little slow. I am one of those with a lot of free time at the moment and am able to be quite fast. But I strongly take to defend the position of anyone who has something essential in his/her life and as a result he/she just is unable to be 24/7 on the site. That is really okay and logical. But also, you know in tournaments sometimes even 15 minutes might decide a place at the end of the game if one of the players is on the time limit. And in the given game I am talking about we had about a week everyone in game time to finish our own turns. I am at 5 days left, another player X is at 4 days left and the other two players are about 2 days off the limit. I had a reminder I have to play my turn and logged in. And I see that the player X is having 5 days left now. Hmmm??? Well, I thought I was wrong and probably have remebered falsly. However, it happens for second time that he goes down to 4 days left and the next time I had a turn, he is at 5 days again! This time I am 100% sure I remembered correctly. How can one's clock go backwards?! And how I have seen this only in games of Catan and Ticket to ride and not in any of the other games I play? No logic! How only a handful of players happen to be "going backward in time"? My only view of this is there is some time-zone abusing. I do not know how it should work, but see no other option as is never goes like this for the average player. Some people have probably find a way to cheat the time system with the idea to obviously clock out the other if there is the chance to. And in tournaments when you have smaller time-limit, it would actually be extremely valuable as you can take a place or two higher finish in games with more players involved. So, better chances in the tournaments in general. My asking is how or would anyone be able to check the player X's play dates and playtime? Is there a way to expose this kind of "clocking" as I am calling it? Because it is ridiculous way of taking advantage.

And to add more to the situation I was in couple days ago - the player X accused another player of our Catan table of lying about resources!!! Not only he was abusing the game clock, he was also trying to make a scene during the game for something that is within the rules! In Catan no one is obliged to tell exactly how much of a given resource he/she is holding. So asking about that is out of question. But player X not just accused the other player of "hiding information", he also tried to make it look like this third player is lying to us. Absolutely cruel as he was already using some kind of cheating to make it looks like someone else is doing it. This is so low moral, I have no words to even tell how it feels. Like we are all clowns and he is the Mind himself making fun of his pawns. On top of that, you cannot even report him in the system here as I saw no option for neither maniulation of game time, nor option for accusing falsly another player of not being fair.

This player's toxic behaviour ended up as I just asked him in the game chat about all he was doing and how his moves towards us were fishy and abusive and he responded with "haha, I am not CHEACHING", clearly trying to make us look stupid about even addressing this to him. What should I do so he gets the punishment he was asking for? I can provide link to the game table so an admin can revise his action. And again, if that is possible, check his play time and potential abusing of the time in some manner. Unfortunately, this is not the only time I have seen this kind of behaviour, this is just the latest one that made it enough for me. Sorry about all of this, but it is making me feel powerless to do anything against as I cannot even properly report him! Such toxic players are ruining tournament game here and there and always go unpunished. Why it has to be?! One's behaviour is something to be revised when he/she is abusive towards others and even refusing to take their actions seriously!
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Tisaac
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Joined: 26 August 2014, 21:28

Re: Game abusing and proper dealing with it. How exactly? Admin's opinion about what should I do next?

Post by Tisaac »

Not sure to understand your first point : it's completely normal to gain extra time at the start of a turn so why is it that surprising ?
He was probably at the edge between 4 days and 5 days so depending on how fast he is making a move, he goes past 5 or not.
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Jeff de Matiss
Posts: 7
Joined: 24 June 2021, 22:11

Re: Game abusing and proper dealing with it. How exactly? Admin's opinion about what should I do next?

Post by Jeff de Matiss »

I have never seen myself gain addional day in tournament games... And I have played a bunch of such games. As far as I know, you get additional time for your turn in ONLY real-time games. Not turn-based ones! Plus, he gained days twice. Comprising to that his other actions in the game, I am suspecting something is not right and that is why I would like his game-time and actions against the third player to be revised. I have won the given game I am talking about, but it still feels unfair to be involved in something like this. The next game he might win or get promoted because of a) the time gained; or b) because of accusing another player of "cheating", even though in Catan the type of resources being held is hidden information. The only open information is the amount of cards in hand. So why he was doing that in first place? Two cases of fishy behaviour of the same player. And I could not even report!
mrdoctor
Posts: 231
Joined: 22 August 2020, 14:16

Re: Game abusing and proper dealing with it. How exactly? Admin's opinion about what should I do next?

Post by mrdoctor »

Why don't you report it through BGA channels and link the staff to the game so they can view the log of both the game and chat, and look into what happened? There's pretty much nothing that any regular user here in the forum can do as we're not BGA staff, and we don't even know which game it's referring to to be able to even look at the public game-log to see if there's anything helpful to add.
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Tisaac
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Joined: 26 August 2014, 21:28

Re: Game abusing and proper dealing with it. How exactly? Admin's opinion about what should I do next?

Post by Tisaac »

Jeff de Matiss wrote: 11 September 2023, 18:56 I have never seen myself gain addional day in tournament games... And I have played a bunch of such games. As far as I know, you get additional time for your turn in ONLY real-time games. Not turn-based ones! Plus, he gained days twice. Comprising to that his other actions in the game, I am suspecting something is not right and that is why I would like his game-time and actions against the third player to be revised. I have won the given game I am talking about, but it still feels unfair to be involved in something like this. The next game he might win or get promoted because of a) the time gained; or b) because of accusing another player of "cheating", even though in Catan the type of resources being held is hidden information. The only open information is the amount of cards in hand. So why he was doing that in first place? Two cases of fishy behaviour of the same player. And I could not even report!
I really dont think that's true. You also gain additional time in turn-based game.
Again, the only difference is that you dont get your precise timer showing, so it's not easy to see, but if the other players had 4 days and 23h and the added time is 4h per more, then it's perfectly normal to see 4 days and then 5 days.
Gulchen
Posts: 220
Joined: 01 October 2017, 06:55

Re: Game abusing and proper dealing with it. How exactly? Admin's opinion about what should I do next?

Post by Gulchen »

I believe this site's distinction for that was supposed to be
tournament vs not tournament, rather than turn-based vs real-time.
GeraldineMerida
Posts: 358
Joined: 15 December 2020, 07:27

Re: Game abusing and proper dealing with it. How exactly? Admin's opinion about what should I do next?

Post by GeraldineMerida »

Tisaac wrote: 11 September 2023, 23:22
Jeff de Matiss wrote: 11 September 2023, 18:56 I have never seen myself gain addional day in tournament games... And I have played a bunch of such games. As far as I know, you get additional time for your turn in ONLY real-time games. Not turn-based ones! Plus, he gained days twice. Comprising to that his other actions in the game, I am suspecting something is not right and that is why I would like his game-time and actions against the third player to be revised. I have won the given game I am talking about, but it still feels unfair to be involved in something like this. The next game he might win or get promoted because of a) the time gained; or b) because of accusing another player of "cheating", even though in Catan the type of resources being held is hidden information. The only open information is the amount of cards in hand. So why he was doing that in first place? Two cases of fishy behaviour of the same player. And I could not even report!
I really dont think that's true. You also gain additional time in turn-based game.
Again, the only difference is that you dont get your precise timer showing, so it's not easy to see, but if the other players had 4 days and 23h and the added time is 4h per more, then it's perfectly normal to see 4 days and then 5 days.
No, in an official tournament, you hae a fixed amount of time for the entire game, which is never replenished.

If someone's time increased in an official tournament, it's a bug and should be reported.
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Tisaac
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Joined: 26 August 2014, 21:28

Re: Game abusing and proper dealing with it. How exactly? Admin's opinion about what should I do next?

Post by Tisaac »

GeraldineMerida wrote: 12 September 2023, 04:40
Tisaac wrote: 11 September 2023, 23:22
Jeff de Matiss wrote: 11 September 2023, 18:56 I have never seen myself gain addional day in tournament games... And I have played a bunch of such games. As far as I know, you get additional time for your turn in ONLY real-time games. Not turn-based ones! Plus, he gained days twice. Comprising to that his other actions in the game, I am suspecting something is not right and that is why I would like his game-time and actions against the third player to be revised. I have won the given game I am talking about, but it still feels unfair to be involved in something like this. The next game he might win or get promoted because of a) the time gained; or b) because of accusing another player of "cheating", even though in Catan the type of resources being held is hidden information. The only open information is the amount of cards in hand. So why he was doing that in first place? Two cases of fishy behaviour of the same player. And I could not even report!
I really dont think that's true. You also gain additional time in turn-based game.
Again, the only difference is that you dont get your precise timer showing, so it's not easy to see, but if the other players had 4 days and 23h and the added time is 4h per more, then it's perfectly normal to see 4 days and then 5 days.
No, in an official tournament, you hae a fixed amount of time for the entire game, which is never replenished.

If someone's time increased in an official tournament, it's a bug and should be reported.
Oh right, for tournament it makes sense
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Jeff de Matiss
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Joined: 24 June 2021, 22:11

Re: Game abusing and proper dealing with it. How exactly? Admin's opinion about what should I do next?

Post by Jeff de Matiss »

First of all, I think it is not a bug. It is clear advanatage, which should not have been in any usual game. And second, even if I report it as "a bug", most of the reports on the page are published year or more ago and seem to just sit there. When it is an obvious violation of game etiquette and rules, why there's no option to report it the normal way after a game has finished? There's no bad language, no kingmaking of another player, no racism, nothing to report on the usual reasons given. I am trying to shout it out to the community as it is something I have seen in Catan and Ticket to ride games probably a dozen times. Weird enough, I play a lot of Azul, Splendor, Stella and never saw clock going backwards there. But maybe because they are quicker games? Do not find any logic about it, unless there is soemthing from outside in it. Otherwise timers would have shown the bug in other games as well, maybe. Now, the part where the player decided to make a scene with the third one about lying on the resource information is the cherry on the cake. Absolutely toxic and immoral to do as he knows pretty well what he is doing! Why some players always take themselves for gods of the game and try to act like they get away with everything? Because in this case - he is just getting away with it!
I still do not know is there a way to contact directly any of the admins. Cannot find any option for this in the android version of the site.
Gulchen
Posts: 220
Joined: 01 October 2017, 06:55

Re: Game abusing and proper dealing with it. How exactly? Admin's opinion about what should I do next?

Post by Gulchen »

Does the tournament have a prize? ​ If no, I think this being a simple bug is far more likely than hacking.
(A report on its own won't lead to it being fixed, but would hopefully make it known, thereby allowing that reporting option if it happens again.)
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