63 leaves and 153 time warnings = 92% reputation?

[esspea]

In a recent Challengers swiss tournament I was paired twice with the same player over 7 games. I'm not sure this person played a full game and it is a very simple game. Admittedly the time rules for the tournament weren't the best but everyone else was doing okay with it. I'm in the last round with them at my table and same thing, just never playing and slowing things down immensely (12 hours over time limit). I need 6 points to tie for first in the tournament but because of this person at any point in time someone could just hit "skip turn of players out of time" and default me to 4 points. Luckily the people aren't doing that (I asked them not to do it before the game when I saw who was there, but now that I am winning who knows if they will to claw back points).

In fact in the first game where I did not know how skipping worked I skipped them because I was in the lead and I didn't want to lose on time by them making it my turn in the middle of the night which is when I found out it cancels the games and defaults to 4 points for all with +ve time on their clock. So my fault and good learning for me, but I "stole" 2 points from myself because of their toxic playing. 2 points that would have secured the win for me without a tie.

Sorry, for the above rant. Just had to get it off my chest but the point stands that this person's profile shows them doing this on tournaments of all types... not finishing games, ruining them for others as you don't actually get to play, and instead just managing your clock so you come first on time (assuming no one skips).. and their reputation is 92% despite having 63 quits and 153 time warnings in the last 60 days.

How is this possible? Is reputation a useless metric if people like this are not stopped from joining tournaments and ruining games for people?

[nik592]

Time warnings don't impact karma. As to the leaving penalties, I think a lot may be from tournament games, as they're only awarding a 4 karma penalty each time (this is me guessing - I have seen that before but don't totally know under what circumstances you get 4 karma penalties, vs the standard 10, then 20, etc.). If you then complete 4 games without running out of time, then you're back to 100%.

Reputation obviously is a reasonable metric where users are continually leaving games but, it isn't a perfect system, nothing ever will be, there will always be loopholes that some jerky person will find to exploit. That may or may not be what's going on here (if they're not playing games and going into red, then how can they be managing their clock to come first on time?) and either way, the behaviour is not ok, and it's not cool that you don't have much option but to put up with it. But sorry to say that's probably what it is here. Not sure if you can report to the tournament organiser if it happens in a future tournament and they can boot or block the player if necessary?

[GTSchemer]

Unfortunately, even if players get kicked from a ton of games for always running out of time, if they have enough simultaneous turn-based games, the games they DON'T get kicked from end up bringing their karma back to 100%.

It would be nice if people with this level of quit penalties (e.g. 60 in 60 days) had their turn-based game limit reduced, maybe, to avoid karma manipulation?

[esspea]

I feel like maybe a scaling system of karma reduction might be the answer? I get that * happens, so be lenient for first time offenders or people who aren't offending very often in a given time period, but if you are consistently not playing within your time or even flat out quitting games then you should lose progressively more karma. Even moreso if the game can't finish because of you, as I wouldn't mind as much if someone went red but the game was still able to finish in the allotted time.

As mentioned if you are playing a bunch it is no problem to get it back, but the trick is it takes more games the more you offend and then it will actually impact them and give consequences to their actions (or at least move their karma low enough so that they can't join tournaments and ruin them for others).

Right now I don't think it is doing what it is supposed to do if this player can still be freely playing any game and any tournament despite their clearly unacceptable actions.

*moderator edit: please use family-friendly language

[Fuchur]

Unfortunately, even if players get kicked from a ton of games for always running out of time, if they have enough simultaneous turn-based games, the games they DON'T get kicked from end up bringing their karma back to 100%.

It would be nice if people with this level of quit penalties (e.g. 60 in 60 days) had their turn-based game limit reduced, maybe, to avoid karma manipulation?

This is actually the case : First leave = - 10 Karma points, every other leave within the same month (??) adds another -20 Karma.
So 3 games the day leaves you with just 50 Karma (if you were at 100 %) and then you can't join more than 10 turn-based games.

So everything you're talking about is already in place AND doesn't prevent this from happening.
And we don't no what caused that massive drop out. Maybe there is a good reason.

[Cile]

Time warnings don't impact karma.

They really should. There are situations (such as OPs) where the player running out of time is a big inconvenience to the other players at the table, but there are valid reasons for the players to not want to eject them from the table. So when the game eventually ends they receive no penalty for their inconsiderate play.

It should not be up to users to enforce the rules of the site by ending their game early to impose penalties, the site should do that automatically and users just have the option to continue playing with this person or not.

I have submitted a suggestion in regards to this: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=99953

[GTSchemer]

Unfortunately, even if players get kicked from a ton of games for always running out of time, if they have enough simultaneous turn-based games, the games they DON'T get kicked from end up bringing their karma back to 100%.

It would be nice if people with this level of quit penalties (e.g. 60 in 60 days) had their turn-based game limit reduced, maybe, to avoid karma manipulation?

This is actually the case : First leave = - 10 Karma points, every other leave within the same month (??) adds another -20 Karma.
So 3 games the day leaves you with just 50 Karma (if you were at 100 %) and then you can't join more than 10 turn-based games.

So everything you're talking about is already in place AND doesn't prevent this from happening.
And we don't no what caused that massive drop out. Maybe there is a good reason.

The player in question had over 90% karma, which means what you describe doesn't seem to be happening (or is offset by many other games they're already in).

As long as someone manages to join 200 turn-based games, they should be able to sustain it by finishing some of them to just balance out the karma, unless I'm missing something.

[nik592]

This is actually the case : First leave = - 10 Karma points, every other leave within the same month (??) adds another -20 Karma.

There is some exception to this, I think maybe for tournament games? Where you only get a 4 point penalty and possibly consecutive ones don't impact higher. Many of the penalties accrued by the player mentioned here were in that category anyway, so that only requires 4 games to negate that penalty.

Time warnings don't impact karma.

They really should.

I don't entirely disagree with you, but there are a couple of issues that keep this from being workable - firstly, tournaments, which is where I accrue basically all of my time penalties, and has a lot to do with timezones and a little bit to do with some games just being long and not having suitable tournament timeframes. I believe the max timeout for a game is 30 days, and I believe that was the setting in a Race for the Galaxy tournament I was in. The thing is, it included the draft setting, so something like 40 rounds of drafting prior to play. Basically all players at the table ran their time out before the draft was even done - and no, that didn't result in the game being over, because drafting runs down several players clocks simultaneously. We were easily able to complete the game in the timeframe, but time penalties abounded in that tournament (and lots of games killed before they even started (ie. before the draft was completed) which was even more frustrating).

The other thing is that this would make a big difference in the whole no time limit argument (see 29 page thread on this issue). Basically, I have friends who play slowly, sometimes disappear for days at a time. And I'm quite fine with that, but I either have to play and accrue no ELO on those games (by playing friendly mode) or my friends run the risk of accruing time penalties. Which even when they don't technically matter, people still use them to judge others by just looking at their profile.

[hughesjass]

Are there no "karma restriction" options in tournaments?

[nik592]

Are there no "karma restriction" options in tournaments?

Possibly, but they'd likely be set by the tournament creator, not the players. They also wouldn't have applied here, as the player in question still had pretty high karma in spite of recent penalties.