63 leaves and 153 time warnings = 92% reputation?

[ChiefPointThief]

Well, losing Karma isn't a life-time sentence. Each time a table is finished you gain 1 Karma. It seems that the player in question has invested some time to normalize his Karma.

AND i think this is how it should work : Everyone of us can run into some real-world trouble, making it impossible to keep up with the tables you've signed up to. Once you've solved your real-live problems you should be able to make a comeback on BGA.

Maybe not a lifetime sentence but a player like this deserves some sort of severe penalty. Maybe a 6 month or a yr penalty. Consistently averaging more than a leave per day and almost 3 games over time is beyond ridiculous. The life issues excuse doesn't apply here. They consistently exhibit this sort of behavior over an extended period of time.

Your argumentation is faulty : If you have a real time problem, you will be kicked of more or less all of your tables in one or two days. If he was running a lot of tables at the same time he might have been thrown out at all 63 tables in that amount of time, leaving him with 0 Karma, i guess.
After that he has done a lot to earn his way back up.

Why do you wan't to punish someone who has already had a hard time in real life ?

At this point this player is fully aware of how many games they can handle. They still continuously join more games than they can handle and in doing so ruin the experience for several other players. This isn’t a one off incident. They are actually cheating as well because they are entering games knowing they will time out which gives the opportunity for other players to use them to manipulate elo or tournament results. Players like this are also robbing players like me who can play within the time they agree upon the opportunity to enjoy a fair tournament using this format because there always seem to be players like this joining tournaments that they shouldn’t be.

In order to keep a good karma rating, you can't quit more than 1/4 of your tournaments and 1/10 or 1/20 of your real-time games or you'll never offset the quitting penalties. This player with a 92% karma rating must have a large amount of games where they aren't quitting or running into time penalties - otherwise they wouldn't have a 92% rating.

You aren’t considering that people are being extremely generous towards this person. If this person was timed out in just 20% more of these games in which they go overtime then their karma would be at rock bottom. They are in violation in 15% of their games. So just because they have a high karma that doesn’t mean their behavior is acceptable.

[Cile]

I disagree.

When a player quits a tournament they lose 4 karma. In order to restore the karma, they have to play 4 games without a time penalty. For real-time games, they lose 10 karma for the first quit and 20 for each additional, meaning they have to play 10 or 20 games without a time penalty to restore their karma after quitting.

In order to keep a good karma rating, you can't quit more than 1/4 of your tournaments and 1/10 or 1/20 of your real-time games or you'll never offset the quitting penalties. This player with a 92% karma rating must have a large amount of games where they aren't quitting or running into time penalties - otherwise they wouldn't have a 92% rating.

I can see the value in increasing the karma penalty for quitting a tournament or having a greater penalty for subsequent quits in 60 days. But otherwise it seems to work just fine.

That's only if they quit or are ejected. If, such as in the original post here, the other players tolerate it to not lose out on their tournament standing, then the 153 recent time warnings has zero effect on their ability to keep doing this in other tournaments.

[Fuchur]

Why do you wan't to punish someone who has already had a hard time in real life ?

At this point this player is fully aware of how many games they can handle. They still continuously join more games than they can handle and in doing so ruin the experience for several other players. This isn’t a one off incident. They are actually cheating as well because they are entering games knowing they will time out which gives the opportunity for other players to use them to manipulate elo or tournament results. Players like this are also robbing players like me who can play within the time they agree upon the opportunity to enjoy a fair tournament using this format because there always seem to be players like this joining tournaments that they shouldn’t be.

So there is never happening anything unpredicted in YOUR life ?

If you think that this player (i don't know the person in question) is spending his time on BGA in order to ruin YOUR experience on this site, then there is an easy solution : Red thumb him.

I'm wondering how you can be so sure that this is done on purpose (and, as i have pointed out, the simple fact that he was thrown out of a lot of games doesn't mean that he does this regularly).

[ChiefPointThief]

Why do you wan't to punish someone who has already had a hard time in real life ?

At this point this player is fully aware of how many games they can handle. They still continuously join more games than they can handle and in doing so ruin the experience for several other players. This isn’t a one off incident. They are actually cheating as well because they are entering games knowing they will time out which gives the opportunity for other players to use them to manipulate elo or tournament results. Players like this are also robbing players like me who can play within the time they agree upon the opportunity to enjoy a fair tournament using this format because there always seem to be players like this joining tournaments that they shouldn’t be.

So there is never happening anything unpredicted in YOUR life ?

If you think that this player (i don't know the person in question) is spending his time on BGA in order to ruin YOUR experience on this site, then there is an easy solution : Red thumb him.

I'm wondering how you can be so sure that this is done on purpose (and, as i have pointed out, the simple fact that he was thrown out of a lot of games doesn't mean that he does this regularly).

I am sure because you can see a pattern of this persons behavior by looking at their history. As we speak they are still entering, exiting early, and going over time daily on their games. They have been doing this as far back as I can see. It is odd that whenever there is a case like this w/ players constantly doing things they shouldn’t be like cheating people come here and put the responsibility on players like me. How about measures be put in place to stop this type of behavior instead of putting the responsibility on players to find every bad player and red thumb them? Also if I’m not mistaken red thumbs don’t work for tournaments.

Someone suggested in the other thread that players should automatically take a karma hit for going overtime. That would stop this person from entering more tourneys just after two days. Obviously the current penalties are not severe enough if someone can violate over 100 games a month and still have almost perfect karma.

[Cile]

So there is never happening anything unpredicted in YOUR life ?

Something unpredictable happening in YOUR life doesn't mean EVERYONE ELSE has to put what they are doing on hold. Yup, if someone randomly ends up in the hospital that sucks that they also are going to take a Karma hit, personally I would be in favour of letting users use Time Jokers retroactively to remove any time/leave penalties they've received since the last time they were on the site. Solves the "hit by the bus situation", bad actors don't have enough to use this constantly, and does away with the whole "You can't kick this person out to move on with your game, what if they were hit by a bus?!"

If you think that this player (i don't know the person in question) is spending his time on BGA in order to ruin YOUR experience on this site, then there is an easy solution : Red thumb him.

Not an option in tournaments (which this thread seems to be about).

I'm wondering how you can be so sure that this is done on purpose (and, as i have pointed out, the simple fact that he was thrown out of a lot of games doesn't mean that he does this regularly).

It's not necessarily on purpose, "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence", but it is far more likely to be caused by indifference than by something "unexpected" happening to this user AGAIN. When a user is consistently hitting time penalties then either they are indifferent to the time restrictions, or they have "unexpected" things happening so frequently that they should be expecting them at this point and should be joining games with less restrictive times.
I would be in favour of there being some restrictions put on a player who is consistently timing out on games until they go a period of time without having any game time outs. I think a week would be long enough to be inconvenient a get the message across that "running out of time should be avoided". If something tragic has happened then not being able to play in tournaments for a week is the least of their concerns.

[Fuchur]

I am sure because you can see a pattern of this persons behavior by looking at their history. As we speak they are still entering, exiting early, and going over time daily on their games. They have been doing this as far back as I can see. It is odd that whenever there is a case like this w/ players constantly doing things they shouldn’t be like cheating people come here and put the responsibility on players like me. How about measures be put in place to stop this type of behavior instead of putting the responsibility on players to find every bad player and red thumb them? Also if I’m not mistaken red thumbs don’t work for tournaments.

That's funny. I've recently read (in another thread) some players complaining that others were using the red thumb option to get a higher place in tournaments (just red thumb all the strong players -- you will only have games against weak players).

And you seem to get much more information from the players description than i do. When i take a look at YOUR history i just see:
1 kick and 57 overtimes
That doesn't tell me anything about your overall behaviour : Are you more or less every day late in one game or did it happen once ?

Someone suggested in the other thread that players should automatically take a karma hit for going overtime. That would stop this person from entering more tourneys just after two days. Obviously the current penalties are not severe enough if someone can violate over 100 games a month and still have almost perfect karma.

Be careful what you wish for. With 57 overtimes your Karma might melt like snow on a hot summer day.

[ChiefPointThief]

I am sure because you can see a pattern of this persons behavior by looking at their history. As we speak they are still entering, exiting early, and going over time daily on their games. They have been doing this as far back as I can see. It is odd that whenever there is a case like this w/ players constantly doing things they shouldn’t be like cheating people come here and put the responsibility on players like me. How about measures be put in place to stop this type of behavior instead of putting the responsibility on players to find every bad player and red thumb them? Also if I’m not mistaken red thumbs don’t work for tournaments.

That's funny. I've recently read (in another thread) some players complaining that others were using the red thumb option to get a higher place in tournaments (just red thumb all the strong players -- you will only have games against weak players).

And you seem to get much more information from the players description than i do. When i take a look at YOUR history i just see:
1 kick and 57 overtimes
That doesn't tell me anything about your overall behaviour : Are you more or less every day late in one game or did it happen once ?

Someone suggested in the other thread that players should automatically take a karma hit for going overtime. That would stop this person from entering more tourneys just after two days. Obviously the current penalties are not severe enough if someone can violate over 100 games a month and still have almost perfect karma.

Be careful what you wish for. With 57 overtimes your Karma might melt like snow on a hot summer day.

I can’t believe I’m actually going back and forth w/ someone on this topic . As you pointed out I have 1 leave compared to this person having 63. I wasn’t alerted of an arena game starting so that was actually a system failure. I also have played more games than the person in question and have 3x less late games. Almost all of which were with friends and half were from a specific co op game in which we jointly were discussing strategy. In other words I’m not ruining the experience and or altering competitive tournament results and elo of HUNDREDS (maybe even thousands) of players.

[pjt33]

And you seem to get much more information from the players description than i do. When i take a look at YOUR history i just see:
1 kick and 57 overtimes
That doesn't tell me anything about your overall behaviour : Are you more or less every day late in one game or did it happen once ?

There is more information but it's not visible without requesting it. Your profile shows "3 (exit icon) and 4 (overtime icon)
(On 126 recent games)" but if I click the "On 126 recent games" it lists the individual dates and tables for those 7 events.

[Ceaseless]

BGA should increase the kick-out penalty by 10% every game and remove the karma floor of 0%. Sure, karma will still be very easy to maintain regardless, but it will help reduce the ability for some more extreme examples of players who regularly end up getting kicked out of their games and keep doing events. Throw in a safeguard of choice for a player who has a rare time failure that stops them from playing all of their games, maybe a floor for karma loss for the current set of games (further karma loss only applies to games started after the last kickout) etc. for one example, there could be other ways to do it that work even better.

[Fuchur]

I can’t believe I’m actually going back and forth w/ someone on this topic . As you pointed out I have 1 leave compared to this person having 63. I wasn’t alerted of an arena game starting so that was actually a system failure. I also have played more games than the person in question and have 3x less late games. Almost all of which were with friends and half were from a specific co op game in which we jointly were discussing strategy. In other words I’m not ruining the experience and or altering competitive tournament results and elo of HUNDREDS (maybe even thousands) of players.

Ok, so you're overtime is completely harmless and that of that other isn't. How do you think an automatic system should guess which one is to punish and which one is excused ?
The same applies to the automatic system which sanctions leaves : Nobody wants a heavy system where some human judges would have to decide if an excuse (for quitting) is valid or not.
So -- because s*** happens in real-life -- there must be away to recover from a series of leaves, even when there might be players who are doing his on purpose (which i doubt).
There IS already a solution for these cases : If you have identified a player who is messing around, you can red-thumb him (and, as far as i know this works even for tournaments).
For all of those who require more harsh punishments for leavers : This will only fall back on normal players who run into a real-world problem. Some-one who spends his time on BGA destroying tournaments/tables on purpose will easily bypass any hard Karma-penalty -- for instance, just create a new account from scratch.