To what extent is tabletalk ok?

[OwnerOfTheIronThrone]

What is your opinion on tabletalk in games. Is it ok to negotiate/suggest moves in games like 7 wonders, res arcana, king of tokyo, ark nova or worker placements?
Usually there is no talk in games on bga but it might be because it is online. For example in ark nova I find it hard to belive that there is no communication involved regarding causing breaks in your games irl (no revealing secret information ofc though). It is rare that someone doesn't comment on green/red cards in 7 wonders games irl.

Is suggesting a good move to someone ok in 3p game if you are going to benifit from that move too? Is asking not to do a certain move in exchange for a promise of not making another move acceptable? Baisically I am talking about using chat as a mean to winning without revealing secret informations (or any other form of cheating).

The specific situation that pushed me towards writing this thread is a 3p game of res arcana in which I suggested to another player making a move (causing victory check) when it would make me win, because he couldn't get 1st place anyway and if he didn't, then 3rd player would outscore both of us and win with a slower strategy. So with this move the order was 1. me 2. victory check player 3. slow strat. If he didn't make this move it would be 1. slow strat 2. me 3. victory check

Do you think I was allowed to say this or not. To be specific I didn't suggest the move, I only asked "does it make a diffrence to you if you are 2nd or 3rd" or sth like this, but I wanna know what you think about saying out loud the move it would be.

[athenakat]

I think people should table talk but for whatever reason it seems to be bad etiquette here. You will find table talk in Bang and hidden traitor games.

[pjt33]

For example in ark nova I find it hard to belive that there is no communication involved regarding causing breaks in your games irl

I've played Ark Nova IRL a handful of times and never seen table talk about triggering the break. Mind you, the book-keeping in that game is so complex when you don't have a computer doing it for you that it takes up most of the table talk.

[OwnerOfTheIronThrone]

For example in ark nova I find it hard to belive that there is no communication involved regarding causing breaks in your games irl

I've played Ark Nova IRL a handful of times and never seen table talk about triggering the break. Mind you, the book-keeping in that game is so complex when you don't have a computer doing it for you that it takes up most of the table talk.

I admit it might have been a stretch to say that it is hard to belive that someone doesn't do it. I meant more so that I find it hard to belive that there aren't groups do it often. A more common example could have been in king of tokyo when someone is low hp and entire board encourages the active player to kill the monster in tokyo.

[Strode]

To me, this is what makes online gaming a lesser experience. No table talk.

Some of the issue is language differences. Much of it is tone. There's usually a playful or tongue-in-cheek quality to a lot of RL table talk that doesn't come across online.

I don't mind being lobbied to make a certain move, but dislike being told what to do by some know-it-all opponent. What's the difference? Tone.

[RicardoRix]

This is a really interesting question, and you make some very shrewd observations.

I would say that the proper answer to your Res Arcana question is, yes that's fine. You're not breaking any rules afaik.

In RL, I mostly play with family. I'll give you my most extreme personal experience that comes to mind. Recently we played Bohanza the bean trading game. So verbal trading is built right into the game. In fact you might argue that the verbal trader that does the best will likely win. My son will actively try to poo-poo other peoples trades with the best logical reasoning that he can muster, whether he believes it or not, he is a very good liar. And even use this tactic to persuade less experienced players to not participate in what would otherwise be a perfectly reasonable trade. Is this playing the game more effectively? or just being annoying? But this is how he plays, this is how he likes to play. It's difficult to argue against. I would find it interesting if game designers ever encounter play testers like my son. And yes he would certainly use logic like this in Ark Nova, and any other game to. Winning is the ultimate goal for some.

[King Hrothbeort]

It varies a lot depending on the game and depending on who you're playing with. When I play with friends there is usually a ton of table talk. Of the games I commonly play with random people, Just One has by far the most table talk. Many games are mostly or totally silent, with maybe a gg at the end. I prefer it when there is table talk, so I almost always start out with a standard "Good luck and have fun" message which is automatically translated into my opponents' preferred language.

[cigma]

It varies a lot depending on the game and depending on who you're playing with.

I absolutely agree with this. When you are playing with friends (online or IRL), you know what is appropriate to your group. I also think in games like Bang or King of Tokio, some table talk like „Hit them“ can be seen as a part of the game flavor.

For other games I’d generally prefer not to talk about things which can influence player actions. I want to play independendly, without outside involvement.

The specific situation that pushed me towards writing this thread is a 3p game of res arcana in which I suggested to another player making a move (causing victory check) when it would make me win, because he couldn't get 1st place anyway and if he didn't, then 3rd player would outscore both of us and win with a slower strategy. So with this move the order was 1. me 2. victory check player 3. slow strat. If he didn't make this move it would be 1. slow strat 2. me 3. victory check

Do you think I was allowed to say this or not. To be specific I didn't suggest the move, I only asked "does it make a diffrence to you if you are 2nd or 3rd" or sth like this, but I wanna know what you think about saying out loud the move it would be.

For me this wouldn’t be ok, out of respect to both other players. I suppose everyone would rather be 2nd than 3rd. So if this player made the move to become 3rd, they probably didn’t see a better option. Talking them into another move has some taste of (negative) kingmaking to me. Also, if they follow your hint and change their strategy and become 2nd, I think it’s a kind of a lousy rank - they didn’t earn it by their own abilities.

But I do see helpful table talk a bit differently, if you are playing with a newbie. Generally I’d say, if they miss an opportunity which is obvious to regular players (probably because the newbie isn't familiar with all the rules yet), it’s ok to give them a hint, whereas I’d still avoid to give them any tactical advice beyond that.

Of course, all depends on the people you are playing with. If all agree to do otherwise, that’s ok! But If you haven’t clarified the matter, I’d be very cautious about this kind of table talk.

[RobertBr]

The specific situation that pushed me towards writing this thread is a 3p game of res arcana in which I suggested to another player making a move (causing victory check) when it would make me win, because he couldn't get 1st place anyway and if he didn't, then 3rd player would outscore both of us and win with a slower strategy. So with this move the order was 1. me 2. victory check player 3. slow strat. If he didn't make this move it would be 1. slow strat 2. me 3. victory check

It sounds like you offered unsolicited advice to an opponent? Yes, that is a bad etiquette. In a real life situation or with friends you might know a player is amenable to advice, or in a training game advice might be solicited. In fact, in a recent competitive game an opponent who also discusses strategy in that game solicited my opinion on something and I gave it - but I would not have done so if it had not been directly solicited.

[Remkar]

What is your opinion on tabletalk in games.

Unless the game explicitly calls for it, or the group you're paying with explicitly desires it, I'm personally against table talk.

Full on table talking turns the game into who can QB the best and/or who can socially manipulate people the best. That's not what I'm looking for usually, and it seems against the spirit of fair play in most games (unless I'm playing a game built around it like Game of Thrones for example).