Prevent people from conceding in their final turn (Wingspan)

[Snoepkontje]

More and more often I've experienced that people concede in the final round and often even their very final turn. This can be very frustrating and unfulfilling and does not serve any purpose other than take away happy joyous feeling for the winner. My suggestion would be to disable the forfeit/concede option in the final two turns. I definitely see the use of the concede option, but just not for the very final stage of a (long) game.

Have you experienced this? Do you feel frustration when people concede in their very final turn?

You can vote for my suggestion here: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=106790

[paramesis]

This is a sitewide issue and not within the scope of the Wingspan implementation specifically. I understand the frustration, especially for Wingspan since so much useful information is shown during final scoring. In addition to what you mentioned, conceding also excludes the table from any statistical analysis. From within this implementation there isn't anything I can do that wouldn't revive worse problems. BGA does not allow conceding when the game progression is reported to be less than 50%, which I infer was put in place to inhibit Elo farming or trolls ruining games by joining just to immediately concede. If I were to modify this implementation in a way that "hacks" its interaction with the main site by changing the game state progression to below 50 near the end of the game, players would leave instead of conceding. When players leave a game in progress, they lose Karma points and their Elo is affected in proportion to the game state progression (see FAQ for more info). Before leaving came with an Elo penalty, this led to very frustrating outcomes where players would not play their final turn and just wait to be kicked from the game (or gambling on another player leaving first and getting the penalty) in order to protect their Elo rating, since Karma can be recovered easily. I experienced this several times in real time games when I joined in 2020. At least with concession, the main site treats the game as a win in your favor.

An idea suggested on the Wingspan forums would be a good idea in my opinion - there should be an upper bound for concession as well as a lower bound, so that for example you can only concede if the game progression is between 50% and 95%. However, as noted, this would have to be something handled by the main site, not the Wingspan module specifically.
There are a few open reports I found addressed to the main site, where the issue could be properly addressed by the main site team.

https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=19843
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=85415

Edited to correct language: abandoning vs. leaving a game in progress.

[Snoepkontje]

This is a sitewide issue and not within the scope of the Wingspan implementation specifically. I understand the frustration, especially for Wingspan since so much useful information is shown during final scoring. In addition to what you mentioned, conceding also excludes the table from any statistical analysis. From within this implementation there isn't anything I can do that wouldn't revive worse problems. BGA does not allow conceding when the game progression is reported to be less than 50%, which I infer was put in place to inhibit Elo farming or trolls ruining games by joining just to immediately concede. If I were to modify this implementation in a way that "hacks" its interaction with the main site by changing the game state progression to below 50 near the end of the game, players would abandon instead of conceding. When players abandon, they lose Karma points and their Elo is affected in proportion to the game state progression (see FAQ for more info). Before abandonment came with an Elo penalty, this led to very frustrating outcomes where players would not play their final turn and just wait to be kicked from the game in order to protect their Elo rating, since Karma can be recovered easily. I experienced this several times in real time games when I joined in 2020. At least with concession, the main site treats the game as a win in your favor.

An idea suggested on the Wingspan forums would be a good idea in my opinion - there should be an upper bound for concession as well as a lower bound, so that for example you can only concede if the game progression is between 50% and 95%. However, as noted, this would have to be something handled by the main site, not the Wingspan module specifically.
There are a few open reports I found addressed to the main site, where the issue could be properly addressed by the main site team.

https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=19843
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=85415

Thank you for your elaborate response. I've voted for the main site reports. Hopefully this gets picked up by the main site team soon (although I'm a bit skeptical as the first report is from 3 years ago..).

[Ceaseless]

Thoughts on letting players play on after a game is conceded?

[paramesis]

Conceding can only be done in a 2 player game, at which point the game has ended. It is impossible to take any further actions on a game that has ended. By contrast, if a player leaves a game in progress, the game can continue on with the quitting player's actions being taken or skipped automatically, however this will not affect the outcome as far as the main site is concerned (ELO/karma/tournament standings, etc.)

Edited to correct language: abandon vs leaving a game in progress.

[Patrick of the Isles]

Do you feel frustration when people concede in their very final turn?

No, for me it's a bit the opposite: what can be frustrating is when people fail to concede in obviously lost positions. In two-player games it makes sense for the game to be conceded immediately when the player is sure that their opponent will win. Continuing a game after the result is unchangeable leads to a meaningless game state, and isn't very interesting.

[Ceaseless]

Conceding can only be done in a 2 player game, at which point the game has ended. It is impossible to take any further actions on a game that has ended. By contrast, if a player abandons, the game can continue on with the abandoning player's actions being taken or skipped automatically, however this will not affect the outcome as far as the main site is concerned (ELO/karma/tournament standings, etc.)

Yes, I'm saying thoughts on changing that. Allowing the same options for conceding that already exist for abandonment in 2 player.

[ufm]

This is a sitewide issue and not within the scope of the Wingspan implementation specifically. I understand the frustration, especially for Wingspan since so much useful information is shown during final scoring. In addition to what you mentioned, conceding also excludes the table from any statistical analysis. From within this implementation there isn't anything I can do that wouldn't revive worse problems. BGA does not allow conceding when the game progression is reported to be less than 50%, which I infer was put in place to inhibit Elo farming or trolls ruining games by joining just to immediately concede. If I were to modify this implementation in a way that "hacks" its interaction with the main site by changing the game state progression to below 50 near the end of the game, players would abandon instead of conceding. When players abandon, they lose Karma points and their Elo is affected in proportion to the game state progression (see FAQ for more info). Before abandonment came with an Elo penalty, this led to very frustrating outcomes where players would not play their final turn and just wait to be kicked from the game in order to protect their Elo rating, since Karma can be recovered easily. I experienced this several times in real time games when I joined in 2020. At least with concession, the main site treats the game as a win in your favor.

An idea suggested on the Wingspan forums would be a good idea in my opinion - there should be an upper bound for concession as well as a lower bound, so that for example you can only concede if the game progression is between 50% and 95%. However, as noted, this would have to be something handled by the main site, not the Wingspan module specifically.
There are a few open reports I found addressed to the main site, where the issue could be properly addressed by the main site team.

https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=19843
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=85415

Abandon/concede/quit are all different.

To be precise:

Abandoning a game: Requires agreement of all players (except players who timed out), the game is cancelled without any penalty whatsoever.
Blocked in co-op games due to abuses though.

Conceding a game: Available in 2-player games only when the game progression is ≥50%.
The winner receives all rewards according to the victory, and the loser receives no extra penalties (of course the loser receives ELO reduction and loss record as they lost the game).

Quitting a game / Being kicked out of the game: The game is neutralized.
All other players are declared the tied winners regardless of the final result. The loser loses extra ELO and karma.

[paramesis]

Abandon/concede/quit are all different.

Thank you for the correction of my imprecise language. Where I was referring to players abandoning, I meant to say players quitting. I will edit my post accordingly. Quitting did not always come with a Elo penalty, and this was frequently abused when I joined the site.

[Salanael]

More and more often I've experienced that people concede in the final round and often even their very final turn. This can be very frustrating and unfulfilling and does not serve any purpose other than take away happy joyous feeling for the winner. My suggestion would be to disable the forfeit/concede option in the final two turns. I definitely see the use of the concede option, but just not for the very final stage of a (long) game.

Have you experienced this? Do you feel frustration when people concede in their very final turn?

You can vote for my suggestion here: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=106790

I agree. Also available for Chakra since the objective of the game is to make points, not win.