Have option for disallowing undo in turn based

[scalderwood]

Please have an option that when creating a game can either completely disallow undo or limit it to the last action, rather than last whole turn.

[ivan the tolerable]

Please have an option that when creating a game can either completely disallow undo or limit it to the last action, rather than last whole turn.

just curious, but what good would that do in turn-based games? other than preventing people from using tablets to play, or trying to gain an unfair out-of-game advantage over people who do, i just don't see the point.

[scalderwood]

It forces players to make a choice and live by those consequences, which is what they have to do in real time play (or when playing in my house). I think unlimited undo is a crutch. True, they could just stare at the screen for a long time.

I do think it is easy to accidentally tap the wrong item, especially on mobile devices, which is why I'd like the option to allow an undo for the last action.

My preference is to give players as much freedom in deciding the parameters of play as possible. And that's my motivation.

[ivan the tolerable]

I guess I can see your reasoning then, if you see games as a form of punitive object lesson instead of a pleasant pastime. I hadn't looked at them quite that way before. As such I can see your point that if the gameplay drags a bit due to the lack of button, it is irrelevant as long as the important lesson of consequences is driven home.
Also, you must be a blast at parties.

[Abraham fr]

Sorry but in Tzolkin I'm still looking for an undo function. Even for he last turn. Where is this located please?

To add to the debate, undo is paramount because a mistake on the effect of you play can be may just because you're not mastering the game rules completely. So I'll be glad if it stays/be implemented for the last move on turn base games.

[pakatatrak]

Would be nice in deed, I made a lot of mistake because I do not know well this game.
Be careful with cancel function, I used it on my last turn and it has ended the game while I still had 2 worker to remove...

[Liallan]

There's two points to turn-based. One is people just not being able to get together at the same time or having a lot of time availability to get through a full game. The other is not having a clock ticking and being able to take one's time taking turns. Part of "taking one's time" is being able to think about it for a while, and being able to undo makes perfect sense. This does not exist face to face, so it's difficult to make that type of comparison in terms of time.

But in real life, if you touched a card on a pile and before actually looking at it, changed your mind, most reasonable players are going to allow you to do something different. Even in Chess you can change your mind as long as you haven't let go of the piece. When it's a computer, as soon as you touch/click something - too late. You have a lot less leeway than you would in real life, and it really shouldn't be difficult to see this. I've certainly had more than one occasion when I'm barely touching that mouse, suddenly change my mind, but too late - the click happened. That would never, ever be a problem f2f.

Real life games don't have an interface. You don't have to go around clicking on things trying to figure out how it works, and screwing it up.

I think having an undo is particularly important in turn-based, and if anything, you'll find more people wanting it rather than wanting to get rid of it. I don't know many games here, but most of them don't even have an undo, and need to have one.

I don't think it's about "living with the consequences." In real life, you would be able to change your mind as long as you don't take up too much time about it. What difference does it make whether I take a bit of time to think and don't say what I'm doing until my decision is final, or whether I think out loud, start to do something, change my mind... if I'm taking the same amount of time? Are you so regimented? If so, I'd never want to play with you anyway. But certainly I understand not taking moves back once the next person is making their move - but you certainly can't do that here.

I would definitely never want to play a game if someone took the undo away - in fact, all the games need such a thing for the turn-based mode.

(I have to say I'm a bit curious as to how you even know what people are doing on their turns when it's turn-based. Or are you just making assumptions that everyone is constantly using the undo and taking over-advantage of it?)

[Jest Phulin]

... Even in Chess you can change your mind as long as you haven't let go of the piece. ...

Just picking nits here... Under FIDE laws of chess (http://www.fide.com/component/handbook/ ... ew=article section 4.3), once a piece has been touched, that piece must be involved in the turn. Granted, if you touch your own piece, move it to an unoccupied place, then decide you want it in a different legal place, you are correct that you can make this adjustment as long as you have not let go of your piece. But you cannot move one piece, then decide to move it back to its original position and move another piece.

But, all this is just picking nits, and not really constructive to the discussion of undoing moves on this website. I think there is another thread in these forums somewhere that seemed to conclude there are two uses for the undo. One is "Hey, I want to see what the consequences of my actions will be, and undo them if I don't like it." The other is "Hey, I'm trying to play on a device that I don't have perfect control over, and sometimes hit the wrong area/misclick." Be careful in attributing all uses to one reason or the other.

[Liallan]

But, all this is just picking nits, and not really constructive to the discussion of undoing moves on this website.

Yup, you're right about that. I don't mind picking nits, but I was simply making a point.

One is "Hey, I want to see what the consequences of my actions will be, and undo them if I don't like it." The other is "Hey, I'm trying to play on a device that I don't have perfect control over, and sometimes hit the wrong area/misclick."

I made very clear, that even in real life you can start to do something, change your mind, and be able to take it back, but on here once you touch anything, it's too late. It does not have to be because it's a device or a "misclick." Changing one's mind does not have to be about "I didn't like the consequences of my actions." If I place some workers on brick in Stone Age, and then suddenly think, oh wait, I wanted to do wood... I haven't seen the consequences of anything. Changing one's mind is not the same as seeing consequences.

You really shouldn't be able to take back moves where you've truly seen the consequences of something, and while I don't know very many games here, this cannot be done on any of the ones I know.

Be careful in attributing all uses to one reason or the other.

I didn't.

[jgbaxter]

Undo should always be allowed as long as nothing unknown is revealed. The idea that an online implementation of a board game should not be more limiting than playing face to face is paramount to me.