Saboteur 2 Option for Open Gold

[madhattr999]

Hello,

Myself and many players I've spoken to, agree that Saboteur 2 would be improved with the option to have the amount of gold visible to all players. Since in Saboteur 2, gold is 100% trackable, and any good player will track the gold, it makes it unnecessary to hide the gold.

In fact, it only hurts new players who don't realize they need to track who is winning.

Having it as an option at game start would still allow people to play Saboteur 2 with the official rules.

Please allow us this option so that players don't all need to track the gold, and so that it isn't necessary to point out to players who is leading (when that information is clearly obtainable).

Thanks,
Madhattr999

[Yorgad]

Hello,

I fully agree with Madhattr999 (rare enough to be noticed )

Based on the fact players can take note and memorize the score, it's an useless feature to hide the golds reward.

Showing the current score will help beginners to track the leader and (I hope) avoid untimely/random robbing and jailing actions.
The strategy aspect of the game will therefore be increased without killing the fun.

If you want to scores hidden, fine, then I would suggest to reveal the roles of each round only at the end of the game.

Regards,
Y.

[liutas]

I agree

[szmajchel]

awesome idea!

[csq]

How is it done during a live game? Do players keep their gold cards displayed for everyone else throughout the entire game? Or at least accessible in a pile for someone to go through and count if they forget? As much as I understand MadHattr999's point, I feel that it is part of the game to not show the running totals for it is just another thing a player must remember and keep track of.

Unless a player may revisit someone's gold count at any time they wish during the game in a regular in-person game, I don't see why it should be done for the BGA version of the game.

Just because the points are not a secret at the time they are scored does not mean that players should be given a running total of points for everyone, especially when players can potentially control the outcome of the game with this information.

If this change is implemented, will all players' victory point totals in Puerto Rico be displayed throughout the game instead of hidden? Or everyone's corruption piles be kept displayed in Sobek? Or reveal the cards a player currently holds in Jaipur except starting cards? Since all of these things are, you know, "trackable."

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.

[madhattr999]

How is it done during a live game? Do players keep their gold cards displayed for everyone else throughout the entire game? Or at least accessible in a pile for someone to go through and count if they forget? As much as I understand MadHattr999's point, I feel that it is part of the game to not show the running totals for it is just another thing a player must remember and keep track of.

Unless a player may revisit someone's gold count at any time they wish during the game in a regular in-person game, I don't see why it should be done for the BGA version of the game.

Just because the points are not a secret at the time they are scored does not mean that players should be given a running total of points for everyone, especially when players can potentially control the outcome of the game with this information.

If this change is implemented, will all players' victory point totals in Puerto Rico be displayed throughout the game instead of hidden? Or everyone's corruption piles be kept displayed in Sobek? Or reveal the cards a player currently holds in Jaipur except starting cards? Since all of these things are, you know, "trackable."

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.

We are not playing a live game. We have access to computers and many players take notes. And even in the live game of Sab 2, there are visible gold tokens which give players an approximation. So I don't think your comparison to live games is relevant.

And the point spread in Saboteur is around 1-6, not 40-80 as in Puerto Rico. It's not really a fair comparison. Having this specific knowledge is much more important for Saboteur, particularly because there are actions that directly fight the leaders. Players DO control the outcome of the game with this information, regardless of whether it is listed by the game, or tracked by each individual player. Either way, players have this information.

Lastly, and most importantly, I am only asking for an option, not for a change to the default. You can always choose to play the game with your gold hidden, though any good player, myself included, will still know how much gold you have.

[Katherine_by]

I agree with madhattr. In real game you always know the score of your opponents (if you are following the game) - and it's about any game, not only sab. If score is displayed in sab 2 (since we for sure know how many gold each player has), that would help

[dreams11]

I agree 100% as it is public information when awarded at the end of each round. The elimination of the hidden gold would make the game more enjoyable by all except professional accountants and those who drive an extra 5 miles to save 10 cents on a gallon of gas.

dreams11

[dreams11]

How is it done during a live game? Do players keep their gold cards displayed for everyone else throughout the entire game? Or at least accessible in a pile for someone to go through and count if they forget? As much as I understand MadHattr999's point, I feel that it is part of the game to not show the running totals for it is just another thing a player must remember and keep track of.

Unless a player may revisit someone's gold count at any time they wish during the game in a regular in-person game, I don't see why it should be done for the BGA version of the game.

Just because the points are not a secret at the time they are scored does not mean that players should be given a running total of points for everyone, especially when players can potentially control the outcome of the game with this information.

If this change is implemented, will all players' victory point totals in Puerto Rico be displayed throughout the game instead of hidden? Or everyone's corruption piles be kept displayed in Sobek? Or reveal the cards a player currently holds in Jaipur except starting cards? Since all of these things are, you know, "trackable."

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.

Well csq you are entitled to your opinion as wrong as it is lol jk.

The of keeping track of everyone's gold is just a drudgery that is totally unnecessary and serves no purpose other then to put a new player at an even more of a disadvantage then they already are, as EVERY experienced player keeps track of it.

1 There is no skill involved in this step as you cannot influence anything by any choice you make because there are no choices to make. As an adult I'm sorry but I don't consider basic addition a skill

1b You may argue that it is a choice in and of itself to keep track of the gold but please remember this is a GAME that is supposed to be ENJOYABLE not a task to be endured as if you were at WORK to earn your living

2 There is no luck involved as there is nothing left to chance and so no randomness involved

3 It is not a necessary mechanic of the game to make the game playable so again no skill involved such as what order to take the steps of the game in the hopes of influencing a future event

so as this step has no skill involved no luck involved and is not a necessary game mechanic it only ultimatley overcomplicates an already complex hard to follow game and discourages new players to all our detriment.

As I said my friend you are entitled to you opinion but now that the correct opinion has been stated I hope you see the light of day. rebuttal? (I hope you understand that this last sentence was said to razz you a little bit not trying to be an ahole lol)

[totes_not_pej]

Good idea. When admins are at it, they can also make a nice list of all cards in game - items would be crossed from the list when the card in question is used. It's an unnecessary hassle to keep track of how many breaks and crosses have been used. Csq's idea to do the same thing in Jaipur and Sobek is awesome too.