Saboteur 2 Option for Open Gold

[madhattr999]

Good idea. When admins are at it, they can also make a nice list of all cards in game - items would be crossed from the list when the card in question is used. It's an unnecessary hassle to keep track of how many breaks and crosses have been used. Csq's idea to do the same thing in Jaipur and Sobek is awesome too.

Number of breaks and crosses used is not particularly relevant in Sab2. Who is leading is much more important. And as Dreams said, it's about making it not quite as difficult for new players, and to reduce random target stealing and random jailing by new players, which will improve the strategy aspect of the game. It's still a good idea to account for which cards have been played, but it will vary by role, and which cards to track would be something an experienced player would have to decide.

And as I already said, this would only be an OPTION. People who want to play with hidden gold, could choose to play that way. And people who want to play with open gold, could choose to play THAT way. It is not taking away someone's preference.

[buuuda]

+1 to idea.

[Yorgad]

Before you guys go in an unnecessary debate, please notice Madhattr suggests it is an option you could choose from.

[Een]

Hiya sabs,

We usually stick to official rules and variants. Even if it's online, we aim to be as close as possible to the IRL game experience.

The rule states: "Players cannot conceal whether or not they have GP but they can keep the total a secret."
So I could make it 0 when it's 0 and ? when it's more than 0 (not sure if that would be really helpful, but it would be a more faithful adaptation; I think I'll do it).

IRL, I have never seen players choose to show their gold (my precious and all that, you know). So you usually remember who is leading in the first round (which is not especially difficult either online), but after the second it becomes more difficult as you may not remember all the scores of the first round. Since you see the gold face down, you can get an idea from the number or size of the stack, but as there is 1, 2 and 5 value for gold pieces it's not so difficult to lose track.
IRL, I have never seen anyone take notes either. Sure, online you can emulate perfect memory this way without getting frowned at - since nobody sees you roll out your parchment and charcoal to do it -, but it could be argued to be against the spirit of the game...

So I'm not so sure about this request for an option to get the account balance of every dwarf stamped on its forehead. Not very dwarfy, huh ?
I'll email the game designer to ask about it, and follow his feelings on the subject.

Cheers,
Een

[madhattr999]

Hiya sabs,

We usually stick to official rules and variants. Even if it's online, we aim to be as close as possible to the IRL game experience.

The rule states: "Players cannot conceal whether or not they have GP but they can keep the total a secret."
So I could make it 0 when it's 0 and ? when it's more than 0 (not sure if that would be really helpful, but it would be a more faithful adaptation; I think I'll do it).

IRL, I have never seen players choose to show their gold (my precious and all that, you know). So you usually remember who is leading in the first round (which is not especially difficult either online), but after the second it becomes more difficult as you may not remember all the scores of the first round. Since you see the gold face down, you can get an idea from the number or size of the stack, but as there is 1, 2 and 5 value for gold pieces it's not so difficult to lose track.
IRL, I have never seen anyone take notes either. Sure, online you can emulate perfect memory this way without getting frowned at - since nobody sees you roll out your parchment and charcoal to do it -, but it could be argued to be against the spirit of the game...

So I'm not so sure about this request for an option to get the account balance of every dwarf stamped on its forehead. Not very dwarfy, huh ?
I'll email the game designer to ask about it, and follow his feelings on the subject.

Cheers,
Een

Thanks for responding to the suggestion.

I understand the ambition to make the BGA experience as similar to the live game as possible. But ultimately, BGA players have tools and notebooks at their disposal. Even though it may not be in the spirit of the game to take notes in a live sitting, players have come to accept note taking in the BGA version of Saboteur. And with the significant strategic and deductive benefits, I don't think that will ever cease to be the norm. Even without note taking, players are able to go back and read the log to find what happened.

If you do ultimately decide to move towards making the game more like the live version, I suggest displaying gold tokens representing the amount of gold, since, at the very least, that is what we would be able to see in the live-version of the game. Even then, realistically, it would be very apparent if one of the players swapped out five single-gold tokens for a single 5-gold token. So I don't really subscribe to the idea that gold is hidden in a live game.

Either way, I appreciate you taking the time to contact Frederic Moyersoen to ask his opinion. I am very interested in what he has to say on the subject.

[Een]

Hiya,

Turns out Frederic Moyersoen answered that this option was a great idea. So, well, it's done!
Enjoy!

Cheers,
Een

[madhattr999]

Great! Thanks again, Een! Thanks everyone else for voicing your support and opinions on the idea. Can't wait to play games with this option.

[Katherine_by]

Well, just played the first game with that option. It's great, thanks! Though people need time to understand it shows the gold

[jorisz]

I'm glad we can see the gold now. I want to state that with sab2 IRL you can always ask how many gold cards people have. Each card has 1 gold, since that's easy to hand out. Of course, people IRL could hide their gold cards, resulting in a mass-attacking at that player, because who hides is secretly the leader.

Thanks for the update. Good idea.