🌿ELO System Updates

[Stroom]

This thread is an appropriate place to do so, and clearly quite a few people share negative sentiments towards the changes, so it's hardly one person causing issues.

At this point, the concern is that the devs are simply ignoring us. While one might argue that's an answer in itself, the issue effects quite a few people negatively, and it's worth keeping it front and center in hopes they relent.

While I would not happily accept it if they told me they intended to keep the changes, at least that would be forthright as opposed to whatever the reasoning behind the current nonsense is. I would hope that they would do better than that, however. Even just an explanation of why they're waiting would be an improvement, even if not fully satisfying.

At some point it just turns into harassment. Nothing constructive about it. Just asking for them to admit their mistakes and then what?

[h_illes]

Nothing constructive about it.

Yes there is. Maybe they hope that this issue will just go away, and players will just accept the new reality. Keeping this thread up tells them that this is not the case. It also sends the message that ignoring the players' feedback after explicitly asking for it is not OK. It also lets them know that complete silence is not OK. In the worst case, it lets random users who wander in these parts of the forum know how BGA treats players (including paying customers).

[GeoPaladin]

This thread is an appropriate place to do so, and clearly quite a few people share negative sentiments towards the changes, so it's hardly one person causing issues.

At this point, the concern is that the devs are simply ignoring us. While one might argue that's an answer in itself, the issue effects quite a few people negatively, and it's worth keeping it front and center in hopes they relent.

While I would not happily accept it if they told me they intended to keep the changes, at least that would be forthright as opposed to whatever the reasoning behind the current nonsense is. I would hope that they would do better than that, however. Even just an explanation of why they're waiting would be an improvement, even if not fully satisfying.

At some point it just turns into harassment. Nothing constructive about it. Just asking for them to admit their mistakes and then what?

This is a poor argument when the thread specifically asks for feedback and when players/customers have serious, ongoing concerns that are negatively impacting their enjoyment of the site.

I know I've personally been dissuaded from purchasing a subscription due to this change. I'm hoping that at some point the devs realize that ignoring the response is inappropriate and far more problematic than simply addressing the issue head on.

In any event, there are plenty of constructive suggestions posted here, including by myself, h_illes, and many others. At this point the main concern is the lack of response or interaction with the players/customers. The second concern is whether they will revert/alter the changes that were poorly received.

While I expect most will be (rightfully) upset if they don't intend to change anything, I know I will personally be less upset if they say as much than if they continue to say nothing at all.

[Janetta]

Oh . . . wow . . . this is sad . . . I wanted to be the 2 MILLIONTH viewer of this thread . . . I missed it overnight . . . I missed it by more than 11 THOUSAND views !

Yes . . . it is sad . . . there are a lot of us . . . even if we don't often post a reply . . . there are a lot of us interested in the gathering of feedback . . . there are a lot of us interested in the monitoring of the situation . . . there are a lot of us interested in the improvement of the system . . . all phrases posted by BGA Admin in this thread.

So . . . now we wonder . . . what will BGA say . . . what will BGA do . . . how much longer do we wait to hear from BGA ?

[nik592]

Nothing constructive about it.

In the worst case, it lets random users who wander in these parts of the forum know how BGA treats players (including paying customers).

This is absolutely true - there are still players arriving in this thread saying, "Oh, this is why I've noticed stuff being weird with my ELO??" or posting similar threads in the general section (maybe the difference between when the last post for the announcements section was on this thread and the thread title appears on the front page of the forums, and not).

Going away quietly also gives the message that people have (finally) accepted the changes and/or lack of explanation. Neither of which is really ok (yes, they can make whatever changes they want to how the site works, but these changes were still in flux last update, and even from the original post, it's not clear if some (eg. red thumb changes) have been implemented or not), but particularly the lack of explanation. This is not dissimilar to how the removal of no time limit turn-based play was removed, despite strong opposition. They gave an explanation that didn't make sense (again, to avoid people abusing the function to cheat) and when it was pointed out that the changes STILL meant people could abuse the system, and all the change seemed to do was punish those who used the function, they chose complete silence. It's not a good look.

[Zozoken]

What a few may see as harassment or useless complaining, others see as feedback and campaigning to have these updates reverted. The reason this thread keeps being bumped is because we are invested in the outcome of what the BGA team decides to do with the elo update.

Both the BGA team and the players want the system to be better: more server stability and rampant cheating to be stopped. The BGA team decided to handle this by updating the Games In Progress page and changing how elo works in hopes these updates will solve the issues. The player base is negatively impacted by these changes and do not see a notable difference in performance or cheating. In fact, it's tougher to compete now thanks to the elo changes.

It's clear that the BGA team has a vision for the next step in the site's evolution but they are not transparent about their vision. What is elo to them? What do they want elo to mean? It seems they would like to move the competitive nature to strictly Arena and Tournaments but they don't want to remove elo completely. They seem to see a benefit to the achievements and milestones system that elo represents but don't want to see players actively trying to earn elo itself as a goal. If it wasn't so, they would have removed elo completely and they would not have walked back the idea of elo decay. Yet, they silently updated elo to become hidden even on the game page and game start screen now. So clearly they intend to keep at least that change. And only they know right now if this update has lowered the amount of cheating. Though I can't imagine it would.

It seems the BGA team is determined to take the steps necessary to fulfill their vision in secret. They don't seem bothered by how the current player base handles it. They probably hope the player base sees these changes as positive or they will adapt. They did walk back elo decay and suggested that red thumbs will be temporary. So they do care about making changes as long as it is aligned with their inflexible vision.

Hopefully they'll change their mind on power levelling or give us tools to deal with it: better match-making, unranked matches with time controls once we reach 100 elo, etc. Having it not apply to Arena would be a smart decision, but they probably believe match-making in Arena is being structured so that it's not blind (for example, playing against dummy accounts). What we can campaign for is a compromise where power levelling won't be so detrimental to honest competition. Maybe a 12 win streak instead of 6. Maybe having the time last for 15 days instead of 30 days. That way it spills less into honest competition.

Our feedback still stands, BGA team. Hopefully you are considering our feedback seriously. With silence all that we can assume is that any feedback after the last response you gave is not important to you and you are hoping this all blows over.

[Stroom]

Nothing constructive about it.

Yes there is. Maybe they hope that this issue will just go away, and players will just accept the new reality. Keeping this thread up tells them that this is not the case. It also sends the message that ignoring the players' feedback after explicitly asking for it is not OK. It also lets them know that complete silence is not OK. In the worst case, it lets random users who wander in these parts of the forum know how BGA treats players (including paying customers).

What I see it only 3-4 of the same users constantly posting "answer us" every day. This is not constructive. This seems like a vocal minority whining. If you want it to be constructive, create a petition and ask players to sign it. Show everyone how many actually active players are against this change. I would gladly add my signature. You spamming every day does nothing. It's just lazy activism.

[sorryimlikethis]

It's hard to keep up with 58 pages of replies, but I know there have been changes since the original announcement (such as Elo decay no longer being a thing again). What are the changes people are most upset about currently?

[h_illes]

What I see it only 3-4 of the same users constantly posting "answer us" every day. This is not constructive. This seems like a vocal minority whining. If you want it to be constructive, create a petition and ask players to sign it. Show everyone how many actually active players are against this change. I would gladly add my signature. You spamming every day does nothing. It's just lazy activism.

How would it be whining when they explicitly asked for feedback? Besides, I was already directed back to this thread earlier when I submitted a support request. Also, if BGA sees this thread as a minority whining, why would they see a petition any different? (I am not saying they do, just that your argument is poor.)

Also, I simply don't understand what's happening. Why ask for feedback if they are going to ignore it? They didn't have to do it, they could have just said 'these are the changes' and that's it. But they didn't. So I am also looking for some explanation.

[GeoPaladin]

It's hard to keep up with 58 pages of replies, but I know there have been changes since the original announcement (such as Elo decay no longer being a thing again). What are the changes people are most upset about currently?

I believe the power levelling is the main one at the moment. I could be biased as it's very much my own, but I see a lot of the newer comments touching on it too.

It's particularly obnoxious in Arena, where a legit player cannot control who their opponent is & will inevitably go on winstreaks if they're good enough to contend for a higher ranking.