Information is missing from the verifiers (?)

[vichy]

I'm playing this game in Spanish and I think the card is missing the explanation of the answer. I understand from seeing your messages that it may be a mistake in the translation but I'm not sure.

For example, even/odd card (scale) "the verifier verifies the number of even numbers compared to the number of odd numbers." But nowhere is it indicated whether a positive answer means more even than odd or the other way around.

Another card ?x4 "verifies the number of 4 in the code." But what does it mean that the answer is an X?

In the original game (I see on the internet) the explanation is found in the text of the card itself. In my case I see the description of the verifier but not the explanation of the response.


Can you give me any ideas?

[poptasticboy]

You choose a test number for the round. Each verifier knows 1 fact about the correct solution. When you test a verifier, you are asking "does my code match the 1 fact that you know about the correct solution".

So with the "More Evens" verifier, if you test it with code 234, for example, you are asking "are there More Evens in the solution?" A means there are more Evens, a means there are more Odds.

On the other hand, if you tested it with code 123, you are asking "are there More Odds in the solution?" So a means there are more Odds, a means there are more Evens.

The answer the verifier gives depends on the test code you choose.

[Jellby]

Another way of looking at it is the following. The card tells you the code satisfies (at least) one of the conditions, and the verifier only knows about this particular condition. So, for ?x4 there are four possible conditions: no 4s, one 4, two 4s, three 4s. The secret code satisfies one of them, and the verifier will give you Yes for every test code that also satisfies it. But you don't know which one it is, that's what you have to find out.

[vichy]

That's the information I'm missing. Right now it just tells me "x" but I have nowhere to find out what that x means.


I'm missing all this:

A means there are more Evens, a means there are more Odds.

[vichy]

Another way of looking at it is the following. The card tells you the code satisfies (at least) one of the conditions, and the verifier only knows about this particular condition. So, for ?x4 there are four possible conditions: no 4s, one 4, two 4s, three 4s. The secret code satisfies one of them, and the verifier will give you Yes for every test code that also satisfies it. But you don't know which one it is, that's what you have to find out.

In all the games there will always be 0/1/2/3 values four. And the same for fives and ones. Finding out that is the objective of the game but the verifier is not giving me information if it does not tell me way which of those 4 options is correct.

The only thing that would make sense is that to tell me that I have 2 fours I have to do the check 3 times ( ). But still, I would need to be able to see that explanation somewhere.

[poptasticboy]

That's the information I'm missing. Right now it just tells me "x" but I have nowhere to find out what that x means.


I'm missing all this:

A means there are more Evens, a means there are more Odds.

But it's not going to tell you that on the screen. You are comparing your test code to whatever fact the verifier knows; your job is to interpret what the result means, to try to work out what fact the verifier knows.

[poptasticboy]

The only thing that would make sense is that to tell me that I have 2 fours I have to do the check 3 times ( ). But still, I would need to be able to see that explanation somewhere.

You still don't seem to understand. It is your test code that determined what the answers mean.

If you test code 234 to that verifier and get a , you know that the verifier knows that there is One 4 in the solution, because there is One 4 in your test code and you got a . If you had got a you would know that One 4 is incorrect, and you would have to make further tests.

The meaning of those results is because of your choice of test code.

[vichy]

Okay, I'll try the tutorial again to see if I can understand the logic of the game. Thank you for your answers

[Romain672]

Take a simple example: y<3 | y=3 | y>3.
When you try a code like 424 (b=4, y=2, p=4), the only interesting part is the value of yellow which is 2. 2 is <3. So you are asking the question "does y<3?".
If you get a , then y<3.
If you get a , then either y=3 | y>3.

[Jellby]

Maybe it's easier to think of the physical game.

There are many verification cards (the cards with ticks and crosses), three of them are the following:
- One that gives Yes for every code with no 4s, and No for every code with one, two or three 4s.
- One that gives Yes for every code with one 4, and No for every code with no, two or three 4s.
- One that gives Yes for every code with two 4s, and No for every code with no or one 4.
- (The card that would give Yes for every code with three 4s does not actually exist, the reason why is left as an exercise for the reader.)

The criteria card that says that a verifier tests the number of 4s (?x4) is actually saying that the associated verification card is one of those three. It doesn't tell you which one, but it is one and only one of them, and it will be the same for the whole game, until you try a different challenge. After all, in the physical game you have picked a card and placed it face down on the table, so that's the card.

There are some "rules" about the secret code. The most important of all is that the secret code must return Yes for all the verifiers in the particular game. So you don't know (without testing) how many 4s will cause the verifier to return Yes, but you know that whatever number that is, that is the number of 4s in the secret code.

You now can test it with 444 as your test code, and I can guarantee you'll get a No. But if you choose a code with zero, one or two 4s, you may get a Yes or a No, and the result will tell you, first, which one of the the verification cards is actually there (well, you may need to test twice for that), and second, if the secret code does or does not have that particular number of 4s.