Another complaint about ELO

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Zozoken
Posts: 68
Joined: 14 September 2016, 19:42

Re: Another complaint about ELO

Post by Zozoken »

ChiefPointThief wrote: 17 January 2024, 23:20 So I mentioned trio earlier in the thread. In 3p winner takes all and there is no 2nd place. But what I didn't realize until today is that because the two losers tie the one with the most elo is losing points to the other player. Elo is typically low in this game and this explains why there aren't many players above 300 elo.

https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=463509936

If you look at this game sabbie loses 9pts for tying with chikky even though they both come in 2nd place.

https://boardgamearena.com/1/trio?table=463503913

Even in this game with an 100 elo player she loses 6.3 for tying with them. This needs to be fixed along with several teams games that still didn't get the team elo upgrade.
At the very least, I wouldn't mind seeing elo for some games taking the average elo of one team and comparing it to the average elo of the other team, and then the players win or lose elo accordingly. Though I imagine that would not be easy to implement. The elo system is a "one size fits all" solution for rating in all the games. (Also there is the issue of 2p and multiplayer games combined into the same rating, but that's already been discussed exhaustively here.)

In the case of Trio, the winner would compare their elo to the average of all the players that lost, and elo would be added or lost individually based on that calculation.
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Geomattics
Posts: 12
Joined: 27 October 2014, 20:51

Re: Another complaint about ELO

Post by Geomattics »

The rating system on here is wildly flawed and completely inconsistent with the way it adds and subtracts points. I've read the formula and it is nothing close to what it claims to be.
silentProtest
Posts: 196
Joined: 26 March 2022, 20:12

Re: Another complaint about ELO

Post by silentProtest »

Geomattics wrote: 26 February 2024, 02:32 The rating system on here is wildly flawed and completely inconsistent with the way it adds and subtracts points. I've read the formula and it is nothing close to what it claims to be.
how about examples ?? xDD

PS: Is it just coincidence that its always USAs claiming stuff without being specific, talking without actually saying anything ?! :lol:
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TsPeacock
Posts: 28
Joined: 13 August 2023, 06:05

Re: Another complaint about ELO

Post by TsPeacock »

The entire ELO and reputation thing is so stupid.
silentProtest
Posts: 196
Joined: 26 March 2022, 20:12

Re: Another complaint about ELO

Post by silentProtest »

TsPeacock wrote: 28 February 2024, 03:43 The entire ELO and reputation thing is so stupid.
Do explain :D

PS: ...same as above :mrgreen:
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ChiefPointThief
Posts: 745
Joined: 14 August 2020, 22:27

Re: Another complaint about ELO

Post by ChiefPointThief »

Having the same ranking system for all games is flawed. I don't think the win probabilities should be calculated the same even if the elos are exactly the same for 2 different games. Example. Here is a caravan game of mine. https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=536801212

I am 94,93, & 88% fav over my opponents. Firstly these are odds for head to head battle. Also I got most of my elo in 2p so my ranking is a reflection of 2p play. Despite the probabilities I would say I'm actually like 50% to win this game. Caravan also does have a special circumstance that is unlike many other games in which 4p is sort of like 50% game length of 2p. Which is a hindrance on the stronger player. Now if you take a different game like terra mystica and use these same elo I believe realistic probabilities will/should be different.

I win 3.27elo for placing 1st in this 4p game. But if I were to play alzy99 in 2p I would get probably close to 3 elo in just a 2p match (roughly the same).
I still shouldn't get many 3rd/4th place finishes w/ my elo even in caravan but because the probabilities are skewed my 2nd place finishes are really off. I would get something like -10 for a 2nd place finish when realistically I should be finishing 2nd I would say at least 40% of the time in the example above.
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ChiefPointThief
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Joined: 14 August 2020, 22:27

Re: Another complaint about ELO

Post by ChiefPointThief »

Having different win probabilities against players on the same team also makes no sense.
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JoysJoy
Posts: 333
Joined: 02 June 2021, 06:28

Re: Another complaint about ELO

Post by JoysJoy »

silentProtest wrote: 26 February 2024, 02:48
Geomattics wrote: 26 February 2024, 02:32 The rating system on here is wildly flawed and completely inconsistent with the way it adds and subtracts points. I've read the formula and it is nothing close to what it claims to be.
how about examples ?? xDD

PS: Is it just coincidence that its always USAs claiming stuff without being specific, talking without actually saying anything ?! :lol:
Show me examples how it is always USAs claiming stuff without being specific, when you just did it here?
silentProtest
Posts: 196
Joined: 26 March 2022, 20:12

Re: Another complaint about ELO

Post by silentProtest »

JoysJoy wrote: 24 August 2024, 19:47
silentProtest wrote: 26 February 2024, 02:48
Geomattics wrote: 26 February 2024, 02:32 The rating system on here is wildly flawed and completely inconsistent with the way it adds and subtracts points. I've read the formula and it is nothing close to what it claims to be.
how about examples ?? xDD

PS: Is it just coincidence that its always USAs claiming stuff without being specific, talking without actually saying anything ?! :lol:
Show me examples how it is always USAs claiming stuff without being specific, when you just did it here?
thats not the topic point here xD
would be weird if I d made an off topic breakout and made 10 paragraphs with unsolicited demonstrations of that observation :D
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