why is there so many rude players here?

[Jellby]

And when you do mess up (everyone messes up), then a quick message in the chat saying "sorry", goes a long way to ensure that the room stays polite.

No, please. Everyone makes mistakes, myself included, but save your apologies for the end. Saying "sorry" when you make a mistake is giving information in chat. It's the table's job to figure out whose mistake it was, if it was a mistake at all: it might have been an emergency play or a misunderstanding.

Messing up a game and not apologising is a very efficient way to annoy the other players on your table.

Write in chat something like: "Ah sorry, I wasn't expecting that, could you explain what just happened please".

Only if it's a friendly/training game. Communication should only happen in the form of clues, plays and discards. You're welcome to discuss at the end of the game.

[GTSchemer]

And when you do mess up (everyone messes up), then a quick message in the chat saying "sorry", goes a long way to ensure that the room stays polite.

No, please. Everyone makes mistakes, myself included, but save your apologies for the end. Saying "sorry" when you make a mistake is giving information in chat. It's the table's job to figure out whose mistake it was, if it was a mistake at all: it might have been an emergency play or a misunderstanding.

Messing up a game and not apologising is a very efficient way to annoy the other players on your table.

Write in chat something like: "Ah sorry, I wasn't expecting that, could you explain what just happened please".

Only if it's a friendly/training game. Communication should only happen in the form of clues, plays and discards. You're welcome to discuss at the end of the game.

I wanted to voice my disagreement with this post -- not only is it rude, but it's inhuman towards other players, and is the sort of attitude that leads Hanabi on BGA to be known as one of the most hostile and hurtful communities on the entire site.

It is OK if someone says sorry.
It is OK if someone is confused.
It is OK if a game becomes imperfect as a result of an imperfect human.
It is OK if the outcome isn't ideal, and everyone moves on to another game, because people are more important than enforcing an arbitrary chat rule.

[Jellby]

It is OK if someone says sorry.
It is OK if someone is confused.
It is OK if a game becomes imperfect as a result of an imperfect human.
It is OK if the outcome isn't ideal, and everyone moves on to another game, because people are more important than enforcing an arbitrary chat rule.

I agree with all, except for the first, during the game. It's not an arbitrary chat rule, it's playing in the spirit of the game, which is no verbal communication.

[Ant Stewart]

It is OK if someone says sorry.
It is OK if someone is confused.
It is OK if a game becomes imperfect as a result of an imperfect human.
It is OK if the outcome isn't ideal, and everyone moves on to another game, because people are more important than enforcing an arbitrary chat rule.

I agree with all, except for the first, during the game. It's not an arbitrary chat rule, it's playing in the spirit of the game, which is no verbal communication.

I disagree with this - if you want to play a silent game with no human interaction, find an AI to play against - surely someone has written one?

The reason for playing with humans is to enjoy the game together. That means the human element of congratulating really good/inventive plays, apologising for mistakes, clarifying misunderstandings and learning.

If there is a misfire, or some other error, that should be obvious to all players. Saying sorry does reveal that it wasn't the planned move but surely that should already be obvious.

As for asking clarification, sometimes it is not possible to explain what happened without giving additional information. In which case, you just reply with, "I can't explain that at the moment without giving away information, but in a couple of turns I'll be able to explain."

As for waiting to the end of the game to chat, chances are people have forgotten the exact scenario by then. Also if a player doesn't understand part of the convention, it is far more usual to discuss it then, rather than go through the rest of the game repeating the same mistakes.
It is also useful to know if someone just isn't aware of that part of the convention, or if it was a one-off mistake.

[Jellby]

I disagree with this - if you want to play a silent game with no human interaction, find an AI to play against - surely someone has written one?

Fine, let's agree to disagree. I enjoy games with humans where they don't spoil the game (for me) by giving away info or questioning everyone else's moves.

Saying "sorry" after a bomb is giving away info, because it means you don't see a reason why this bomb might have been intentional. It also clearly says that it was not a "scream bomb".

Saying "?" after a move you don't understand, is giving away info, and it also shows distrust in other players, triggers a discussion and often leads to further mistakes by distraction.

You don't want to play like this? Fine. But don't assume that if someone doesn't say "sorry" after a mistake it's because they're a jerk who thinks it's someone else's mistake. I don't assume that if someone says "sorry" it's because they want to cheat and give away info, but I ask people not to do that in my games.

[Sammy McSam]

Expectations of masters who use advanced moves are different to experts & below.

As Jellby says, a bomb can be deliberate!

High-level masters table (not all 'masters' play to a high level..):
Agree with Jellby - we enjoy the game more when chat is saved for the end. We are able to recall particular moves and discuss them in detail at the end of the game.
'Chat after the game' benefits:

1. No spoilers! (communication via moves only)
2. Faster game (no chat multitasking).
3. Fewer mistakes (no chat multitasking).
4. Hindsight may answer questions/criticism of moves.
5. Individual mistakes become less significant.
6. Emotions become less intense.
7. Chat is more concise, precise, objective & constructive.
8. Players can leave if chat after the game becomes toxic.

Experts and below agree with Ant Stewart about teaching in the moment can be better.

The reason why players are so aggressive and toxic in Hanabi is a combination of the nature of the game itself and certain player personalities not understanding how to navigate the social subtleties of cooperative games.

I think toxicity comes from a desire to feel superior to others and extends to other aspects of our lives.
I am sorry to the people I have been toxic to, and ask for your forgiveness.

[15Mo]

Lol! Sorry to everyone with bad experiences! I've noticed the hanabi community is full of really rude people. I just started thumbing them down. It's not the same as reporting them (which you can of course do if they're over the top), but I think at least the algorithm won't match you with them again. It means I have to wait longer for games, but at least i'm not with a bunch of trolls when I finally do get to play.

What I find Ironic is that 95% of the rude chat is also illegal table talk- essentially giving extra clues without using tokens. You have to wonder if the jerks would have so much "win experience" if they didn't have a habit of cheating.

I think this is such a cool game with an awesome concept and design. It can be really fun when you play with nice people. Hoping some of the nice people on this forum will hang in there and help change the culture.

[Datguy]

Sorry you had to experience that but it's not uncommon and it's also rare. People are people. Play with a vast number of people and mark those who are nice. There are many helpful and friendly people on BGA. Many of us are here just to relax and have fun after a hard day's work. Just ignore the rude ones. Just my opinion. Good luck in your future games. May all your cards be playable.

[Aoimoku]

people are being so aggressive and toxic :O
chill bro?

"Oh, you're not reading my mind??? I'm throwing the game and report u!!!!!!!!!"

Average Hanabi player

Too long, didn't read

Well said!

[Mechamiku]

right?? I mean, this is extremely common specially in hanabi, such a great game, such a toxic community, it makes me quit playing a lot of times (better -20% of karma than keep playing with people like this)