Card Talk #122 Moss

[RoyalRook]

Let's talk about Moss, 3 ocean requirement, cost 4 + a plant to gain a plant prod + green tag. The card doesn't make much sense, I never ever feel like it had any true affect on all my games. If get it from draw off the board, then I may play it. But asking me to buy and play it for 7, losing a plant and tempo for a plant prod and green tag feels bad. If I had to speculate and let it sit, that's a loser right? Especially when in none corp era, tempo is so tight.

I rate this card a never buy, go straight to my sell bin unless I have NRA in hand. Am I missing something here? How do you feel about it? Would you buy it? When would you buy it? Would you buy it in your inital 10 card pool? Once again it's a none corp era never buy for me.

[Corbz]

In Non-Corp era i'd probably buy it if there are enough early oceans already down.

If I play in Gen 3, it costs 7 plus a plant, to get 6 plants back (so 5 plants in total) assuming Gen 8 finish which is most common. Even if I play in Gen 4 that's half a greenery for 7 which isn't bad, although have to offset risk of plants being blown up and that it's delayed until end of game.

If I have insects I'd def play Gen 4 and probably Gen 5 too. If I need to get NRA on i'd probably play it in all but the last Gen.

And finally, if I'm Ecoline it's better still.

[sirusx715]

I agree its a rare buy, but would still rank it higher than adapted lichen. It's a bit more incentivized on hellas and elysisum maps where an early, inexpensive life tag or plant production is useful for chasing milestones.

[Yahyra]

Indeed synergies such as Insects and NRA can make this card much more appealing.

[ChesterDeBester]

I think both mosses are pretty playable. More often than note the plant I spend would have gotten destroyed anyways. Sometimes I play Moss or Nitro Moss to "hide" plants from the Asteroids I know that are coming. And like Yahyra correctly said, synergies apply.

The problem with any of the 1 and 2 plant production cards is that they could be worth anywhere between 0vp (if the produced plants did not lead to an extra greenery) and 6vp (1vp Greenery, 3vp adjacent cities, 1TR for you and 1TR denied).

So given the potential impact and synergies, I usually take the punt if I see Moss early enough.

[ice wizard]

Normally I don't buy this card.Normally an arena game ends between gen 7 and gen 9 but the third ocean tile is often placed between gen 2 and gen 4.If you play moss in gen 3 and the game ends in gen 8,you take 7 money and gain 5 plants in total.However,you don't get those plants instantly.You need 6 generations to get all the plants.In none corp era games,more space event cards that destroy plants will be played and this makes moss hard to pay off.If I play Ecoline or I have ecozone or NRA I may keep it.

[Craimefraych]

First post here. Hello everyone.

I tend to lean on the same conclusion : both moss cards are pretty bad.
The tempo is really much the only main factor in 9/10 games on this format, the only exception is when no one goes for heat and the game may last more than 9 gens.
In most games, the milestones are keys, and each bit of money much be given to instant tempo cards (like space events) first cities for mayor and plants or strong and quick production cards. Both moss cards first set you behind on milestones. Next I often find myself wanting to play other cards first, and when i have not played moss on gen 5, i cant really find any reason to play it anymore.
Still, I would rate it above average, since in most drafts it stands out among the average low quality cards. And the potential for NRA, ecozone, decomposers, insect synergies is too high for such a cheap cost.
One decent argument is plant protection too. I often find myself playing it when (spider-)sensing plant destruction, and it can save one two, or even more plants when the target become the other player. I think it has the potential to be game winning in some of these situations.

5/10

[Draffut]

Only really worth it if you have a synergy or two. Viral Enhancers, Insects, Ecological Zone, Decomposers.

[RoyalRook]

I want to bring this one topic back for prelude discussion. Both Moss and Nitrophilic Moss are trash, cost 4/8, three ocean requirement. Same for cards like Noctis Farming, tooooo slow. It just painful to see players keep them for initial drafts. In my mind even say for Nitrogen Rich Asteroid, the tag doesn't cover the tempo. Even say you get NRA down one gen earlier, you forget that you delayed your plant one gen by playing a moss card since you "lend" it out and took it back a gen later with no interest payments.

In fact, it's much much much worse than that. There is oppotunity cost as well, especially if you took it from the draft. You took a trash card over an average card and had to pay 3MC for it to able to lend it to the bank with no rebate. I understand the bio combo argument, but you will benefit much much more by saving the cash and playing other bio tag cards, especially when you are rushing. Mosses are too slow.

Exactly how bad are the mosses? Imagine I am God of Mars(you are welcome to address me so in the future), and ask you to complete project Royal Moss: you pay me 10 dollars so I can gave you 10 dollars back next round and 2MC prod with an Earth Tag. The card cost 8MC and requires 3 oceans.

[FrankJones]

It's a weak card.

Scenarios where it's useful:

1) To play NRA when there is no guarantee of getting a 3rd plant tag
2) WIth Viral enhancers and with the intent to play Insects. Viral enhancers makes up for the lost plant, and the result of the card is +2 immediate increase in plant production.
3) Universal card discounts (Earth catapult + Anti-grav reduce the cost to 0.
4) Decomposers and Ecological zone are both one resource short of being worth an extra point in the final generation.
5) When it guarantees an extra Greenery in the final generation.

I certainly think prioritizing it in the draft is silly.

Also

6) Nitrophilic Moss: At least it gives a permanent +2 production, so as an early play it's better than Moss, if, let's say, you know your 2 plants are about to get wiped by a mils space event (Comet or asteroid) anyway.


7) Very rare, but, it is the final gen and you need a cheap plant tag to be able to play advanced ecosystem.