Reverse Trader Offers

[Jontia]

What's with the reverse trade offers? In the last few games I've played I keep seeing people reverse a trade offer, such that if the opening trade was Wood for Sheep, they offer Sheep for Wood.

Is this ever helpful? Or is it simply intended to get some to accidentally trade away a rare resource for a common one?

[euklid314]

If you have 3 wood and 3 sheep in hand then both reverse trades help you to trade 4:1 with the bank and you are not vulnerable to 7s anymore.

Thus: Yes, there are situations where both trades are valuable on their own...

[BusterVA]

wow, I love this thought. The idea of swapping to the reverse in hopes they don't notice and stealing what they actually wanted to keep. That is very dirty play, but if you don't pay attention whos fault is it really!

[euklid314]

I misunderstood the original post. I thought the player on turn was offering sheep for wood and after all declined, he offers wood for sheep. This is well feasable.

But, if the player on turn offers sheep for wood, a counter-offer by his opponents of also offering sheep and wanting wood seems bad style.

Such a counter-offer could be a passive-agressive way of signalling that everybody has enough sheep and searches for wood.

The only constructive meaning of such an offer would be to signal the other players: "See, I can offer the same trade. You don't need to trade with him (He might be the strongest player atm) you can have the same trade with me as soon as it is my turn."

Thinking about it that seems a perfectly valid reason to giving such a counter offer.

[Jontia]

There's a whole chat box to point out no one has a resource though. I don't see any use in trying to signal it by offering poor trades.

It just seems intended to trip people up in a way that couldn't happen in real life. I've played many games where people have confused the offer/want and handed each other a sheep. But there's no way someone would accidentally hand over a resource they needed for one they didn't. It just seems rude to try to trick people.

[euklid314]

The chat box is usually not used and taken notice of in most BGA Catan games.

As I wrote, it is not uncommon in RL that after the offer " I would give sheep for wood" the next player in turn order replies " I would also give sheep for wood".

This signals to the other players that have wood and need sheep that they have multiple trading partners and dont need to rush the trade. They can either ask for more than 1 wood or they can choose their trading partner according to stength (you generally prefer to trade with the weakest opponent).

Thus the reverse trade offer "I will also trade sheep for wood" has a positive information value. You should not automatically assume malicious intentions!

[Theana]

Thus the reverse trade offer "I will also trade sheep for wood" has a positive information value. You should not automatically assume malicious intentions!

Agree but in this case, and this happened to me, if you are requesting sheep for wood, there is no value added to propose wood per sheep, unless one wants to trick the opponent and make them believe tyhe offer has been accepted

[Jellby]

It's "reverse" for you, it's "the same" for everyone else.

[euklid314]

Thus the reverse trade offer "I will also trade sheep for wood" has a positive information value. You should not automatically assume malicious intentions!

Agree but in this case, and this happened to me, if you are requesting sheep for wood, there is no value added to propose wood per sheep, unless one wants to trick the opponent and make them believe tyhe offer has been accepted

Player A offers sheep for wood.
Player B responds by also offering sheep for wood.

As I am trying to explain to you this counter-offer does not need to have malicious meaning!

True, for Player A it has no positive information. For him it is a reverse trade that he is usually not interested in. But for players C and D this 2nd offer is very important information! Thus such a reverse offer is allowed and can be very important for game play.

[Mathew5000]

Thus the reverse trade offer "I will also trade sheep for wood" has a positive information value. You should not automatically assume malicious intentions!

Agree but in this case, and this happened to me, if you are requesting sheep for wood, there is no value added to propose wood per sheep, unless one wants to trick the opponent and make them believe tyhe offer has been accepted

I agree with Euklid314. There are valid reasons to make a "reverse counteroffer", don't assume it's intended as a trick. That said, I understand how somebody might inadvertently accept a counteroffer that is the exact opposite of what they wanted. Here's a similar thread from January 2023: https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28661 Solution: when your opponent has made a counteroffer, the interface should put the word "COUNTEROFFER", maybe in red. I think that would usually prevent you from mistaking it for an acceptance.