Is a comm needed?

[kooolant]

I havent read all the comments but my position on this is firm.
One problem needs one comm. 9g was commed as a problem. Another comm doesnt need to respond to the problem. It is to be understood that greens is going to be a problem, and that we either find a way to give lead the the player in question so they can manuever the tricks or play another suit so we can ease the hands a bit.

[Quarentenilo]

One thing nobody mentioned is the importance of the choice of tasks. That would give much information about the com/no com situation. As a rule, nobody chooses a 5g task void of green unless it has a REALLY bad hand. So if the task was chosen on first round, it would be obvious for me that no com was needed because it was chosen by someone with 8 or 7g. Now on the other hand, if the g5 was chosen on the second round, then the mistake was 9g not picking up the 5g task.

[Rohcz]

Examples: I will be using A B C & D as players

A holds p3 B holds no pinks with trump card and doesn't com C coms single p9 D doesn't com
Now does A throw p3 or not? If A doesn't throw the p3 and B trumps thinking "no com no problem" D must have the p3. Now B can be left in a tough situation. And if A doesn't throw p3 should we leave the problem to B if whether they should throw out the trump card or not? It can't be wishy washy sometimes throw sometimes not. It should be very clear. Com for solution no com for trump. This is say...in the early rounds with 4 coms readily available and not much issues going on. Now if it were in the later rounds where there may be more important things to com it should be played cautiously.

A coms single p3 B holds no pinks with trump card and doesn't com C coms single p9 D doesn't com
Now does A throw p3 or not? Here it's a little more clear as to whether they should throw it or not as B didn't com. It should not be this way though. It should have the same clarity this scenario vs first scenario. Com for solution or don't com if trump.

A holds p3 B holds 78p doesn't com C coms single p9 D doesn't com
Now does A throw p3 or not? We should not leave the problem to A if whether they should throw or not. What if they throw and B has lower pink and what if they dont throw and B wastes trump card. B should not make it A's fault of whether they should throw or not. Again it should be made very clear as to how B will win this. Com if winning in lower ranking card of same suit or don't com if trump.

A coms single p3 B holds single p8 C coms single p9 D doesn't com.
So why is it that here they will com a solution but in scenario 3 they didn't. This is why it is important to com your solution if winning in same suit lower rank or different suit and don't com if trump. All this is considering the fact that it is in the early rounds with coms available. Again in the later rounds u should approach this with caution and not play that suit for a couple of throws hoping the single 9 can be dropped as other coms may be more important.

[Wreckage]

A holds p3 B holds no pinks with trump card and doesn't com C coms single p9 D doesn't com

There is only 3% chance B has no greens, and all 8 greens are in the other 2 player's hands.

Now does A throw p3 or not?

No, they wait until the second time the color is played. Like so many very experienced players are saying.

If A doesn't throw the p3 and B trumps...

That would be a mistake. We are saying we should all wait until the next time.

It can't be wishy washy sometimes throw sometimes not.

It's only wishy washy by the people saying 'sometimes'. The answer is to always wait.

Now if it were in the later rounds where there may be more important things to com it should be played cautiously.

This is the problem. The players who are saying let's sometimes play it cautiously, and sometimes in early rounds let's go for it. If the standard is that we always wait until after the 9 is gone, there is no problem, there is no danger. Note, on those early rounds it's also fine to wait a trick, with very little downside.

A coms single p3 B holds no pinks with trump card and doesn't com C coms single p9 D doesn't com

The odds against this are 50,000 to 1. Not once every 50,000 hands, but once in 50,000 times we are in this situation.

Now does A throw p3 or not?

Not. Always not. The chances are extremely slim that D holds the other 7 cards of that color.

Again in the later rounds u should approach this with caution and not play that suit for a couple of throws hoping the single 9 can be dropped as other coms may be more important.

I think you are creating problems by playing it different in later rounds than just having the same conventions at all times. Now you have to decide if this mission is early or late. All the wishy washiness you were talking about comes from this idea. Since things aren't as tight in the early rounds, as you point out, there's no harm in playing it the same way. We all wait for the 9 to go away. We don't play the task, and we don't spend our rocket on the first turn.

I think we all agree if it's the last task, or you're sure there's no possible issue you might have later, then we comm the 8. But as a general practice a response comm should not be required.

[Rohcz]

@wreckage So let's say it's early rounds and there are 4 tasks. We avoid the the task of the single 9 til the end and complete the other 3. Do we still not com if the single 9 is not dropped and if player is winning in the same suit lower rank? If u say no I have no answer for u. It's nubcake level to keep wasting tasks to see what if. If u say yes now then I will say I believe in efficiency.

If the player were to just throw out an answer early on we could have played the 9 early then throw out a task that needes to be fulfilled then come back to your task vs in the end where 3 tasks are completed now we have to throw away the 9 then give up lead then come back to your task. There would be no what ifs and the game would run smoother if problem was answered. EFFICIENCY and CLARITY

[pjt33]

if the g5 was chosen on the second round, then the mistake was 9g not picking up the 5g task.

In the scenario you describe, I don't think it was a mistake. The player with 9g almost certainly has a very strong hand, and has chosen to pass on a card they can easily allow someone else to win. It costs their comm, but only one trick at most to clear the problem. If they have 789 in another suit and someone is trying to win a task in that suit with the 6, it's a much bigger problem.

[Jessi Jaymes]

@wreckage So let's say it's early rounds and there are 4 tasks. We avoid the the task of the single 9 til the end and complete the other 3. Do we still not com if the single 9 is not dropped and if player is winning in the same suit lower rank? I believe in efficiency.

My counter question would be.. what’s our more limited resource in these early games? Tasks or Comms?
It seems most agree that a return comm is not expected in later missions where other comms for problems and/or solutions may be needed. Therefore, why create complexity for when we wait vs when we comm?

[Rohcz]

@jessi jaymes coms but early on there isn't much to com. Read my post to wreckage again. I updated it a little. Sit there and do nothing = nubcake level. Waste tricks and what ifs. Answer to the problem = clarity and efficiency. Also did u read my examples

[Jessi Jaymes]

Yes, I think that Wreckage adequately replied to all of your thoughts and examples. The only thing I was addressing was your efficiency comment.

[Tuut Tuut tis Luut]

If A doesn't throw the p3 and B trumps thinking "no com no problem" D must have the p3.

Right, but that's only a risk because you started with the assumption that there's ambiguity.
B knows A has no information on their hand, and knows that considering the 9 comm, A would not lead the 3 at that time.
The fact that B is void here has no bearing at all on how B should expect A to play.

For this specific table setup, it's also just a mistake for A to lead pink in the first place. The potential risks here vanish if any other player has the lead.

A coms single p3 B holds no pinks with trump card and doesn't com C coms single p9 D doesn't com
Now does A throw p3 or not? Here it's a little more clear as to whether they should throw it or not as B didn't com.

Why does that make it more clear? The problem has already been identified, and the possible solutions are clear to all players. If B did have the 8 here, comming it would add no usable info at all, and would not in any way help with solving the problem.

So you still can't take their silence to mean they're void.

A holds p3 B holds 78p doesn't com C coms single p9 D doesn't com
Now does A throw p3 or not?

If you're asking about A's choice here, this is literally identical to scenario 1.

A coms single p3 B holds single p8 C coms single p9 D doesn't com.
So why is it that here they will com a solution but in scenario 3 they didn't.

I think you may have missed a step here, what solution did they comm?