Com the 9 or com the low

[Rohcz]

So I was in a lobby the other day during the mission where u can't win with 9s. I commed the 9 and was told by a Master that I should not com like that so I wanted to explain to everyone the differences and reasoning behind whether to com the 9 or the low. During this level the low should be commed if u hold for example 129 2349 because u can not take control and it lets everyone know when u are down to your 9. Now for example if u hold 1279 2569 u should com the 9 instead of the low. When u hold 579 u should com the 9 because u will be in control and along the way u can determine if the 9 should be released. If u com the low then u would have to drop the 7 first and can not be in control unless the 8 and 6 are dropped at the same time first throw. When u com the 9 u will be dropping the 5 first as someone is dropping the 8. U catch lead next throw. When someone coms the 9 instead of the low it means they want u to throw high as they throw low and at some point there they will catch the lead. Almost means go ahead and throw at will in that suit.

[Wreckage]

Here’s why I like it.
It tells others to lead that suit, and play their highest card. Once you get the lead you have control and can lead until you play the 9.

if u hold 1279 2569 u should com the 9 instead of the low

In your second example here “2569”, If I have 478, I take the first and second with 8,7, then I don’t know if I can lead the 4 or not, so your comm of 9 was not as good. So I do think you would have to have a 7 or 8 as your second highest card, so you can take control by the second play.

Here’s why I don’t like it.
When you comm the lowest, everyone else should be tossing their highest cards anyway, so this suit can be led as much as possible. There’s no reason to keep an 8, unless they need to win a task.

If they do need to win a task with it, more knowledge is better. Let’s say you have p9721, (using your example). I have p864, and I must win a b6 task. With your low comm, I could possibly comm 8p as high, and win my task. With your comm of p9, I can’t do this, because if I keep the lead, I can’t know when you are out.

I think low comm is always better.
You’d have to tell a reason why people might want to keep their high cards here. If there’s no reason, then people should be playing the same cards both ways, and more knowledge is better.

[Tuut Tuut tis Luut]

To add some nuance.

Extending this logic, with a strong enough hand in that color, it can then again become valid to comm the 9 instead.

That tells the rest of the crew you're confident enough in your hand they don't need to worry about you being out or not. Since, if there was any risk there, you would have commed the low instead.


Especially if this helps you retain your lead to play out the suit fully.

If you have 1679 green, for example. There's no risk of accidentally getting your 9 forced (even if another player has 4 of the suit, they'll already know your exact cards several tricks before you run out.).

However, comming the 1 would mean you have to keep that 1 in your hand, else it'll imply you only have the 9 left and they won't continue that color

So 1st trick, you dump your 6 under the 8.
2nd trick you take the lead with the 7.
3rd trick, if someone else had 3 greens. You can now either lose your lead with the 1, or lead the 9 to get it trumped.

Either way you can't play all 4 of your greens without first hoping to get back the lead some other way.

If you comm the 9, you can dump 1 under the 8, then take and keep the lead. Play all your greens ending with your 9.
Very likely getting the whole mission finished in those 4 tricks.

[Wreckage]

If you have 1679 green, for example...

This is a better argument for 9 comm, because the 6,7 are both very high cards. Rohcz, your examples of 1279, and 2569 are both too low. So a low comm is better. But with a stronger 2nd and 3rd card, it makes more sense.

[pjt33]

To add some nuance.

Extending this logic, with a strong enough hand in that color, it can then again become valid to comm the 9 instead.

That tells the rest of the crew you're confident enough in your hand they don't need to worry about you being out or not. Since, if there was any risk there, you would have commed the low instead.


Especially if this helps you retain your lead to play out the suit fully.

If you have 1679 green, for example. There's no risk of accidentally getting your 9 forced (even if another player has 4 of the suit, they'll already know your exact cards several tricks before you run out.).

However, comming the 1 would mean you have to keep that 1 in your hand, else it'll imply you only have the 9 left and they won't continue that color

But this mission doesn't require comms before the first trick. The sensible way to play that scenario is to play the 1 on the first trick in the colour and then comm 6 low.

[Tuut Tuut tis Luut]

To add some nuance.

Extending this logic, with a strong enough hand in that color, it can then again become valid to comm the 9 instead.

That tells the rest of the crew you're confident enough in your hand they don't need to worry about you being out or not. Since, if there was any risk there, you would have commed the low instead.


Especially if this helps you retain your lead to play out the suit fully.

If you have 1679 green, for example. There's no risk of accidentally getting your 9 forced (even if another player has 4 of the suit, they'll already know your exact cards several tricks before you run out.).

However, comming the 1 would mean you have to keep that 1 in your hand, else it'll imply you only have the 9 left and they won't continue that color

But this mission doesn't require comms before the first trick. The sensible way to play that scenario is to play the 1 on the first trick in the colour and then comm 6 low.

If you're the commander, sure.
Otherwise you need to comm before your team knows to lead that color.

You don't NEED to comm first trick, but there's no point in sitting around and taking risks if you already know you can get most of it out of the way immediately.

[Tuut Tuut tis Luut]

If you have 1679 green, for example...

This is a better argument for 9 comm, because the 6,7 are both very high cards. Rohcz, your examples of 1279, and 2569 are both too low. So a low comm is better. But with a stronger 2nd and 3rd card, it makes more sense.

As per your own example in your other comment though, with 2569, if someone else has 478 the same problem occurs.

Indeed with both a 1 and the 2 it doesn't matter which you discard first since they're consecutive. But otherwise the consideration lies in the value of your lowest card, not your second lowest so much

[AlexT2067]

I have a personal convention for "Win with a 1" missions :
Top comm mean 3/4 long color
Bottom comm mean 5+ long color, being a "forcing" comm because nobody can block you.

I think it can be reversed for "Don't win with a 9"
Bottom comm mean 3/4 long color, and you keep your commed card as long as possible so everybody knows when your 9 become solo
Top comm mean 5+ long color, you don't need any protection, any other player will run out of that color before you have to play the 9.
But I think even with a 5+ long color, bottom comm is better. Keep top comm (9) for problems, similar to bottom comm usually means this card and a problem (9 and a mission card, for example, in mission 17)

[Romain672]

I'm not playing much the lower missions, so I don't know much about the difficulties of that one.

But low which isn't a task in most missions usually mean you got a lot of cards on that colar, or is rarely a negative comm to insist in one of the others colors where you got no cards.

.

On those missions where the 9s need to not win or similar, I assume that comm 9 mean exactly 2 cards included 9.

When you comm the lowest, everyone else should be tossing their highest cards anyway, so this suit can be led as much as possible. There’s no reason to keep an 8, unless they need to win a task.

Note that if you hold three cards, you can still do the usual play which is to play your highest second to last, so per example with 248, you play 4 first, then 8, then 2.
I believe it's stronger most of the time.
But on that mission, that will change which player got access to the lead, and that's highly situationnal. Another upside is if the hands are 248/67/1359, then now there is no problem anymore. The chance of it happening is extremely low, but that's an upside.

I have a personal convention for "Win with a 1" missions :
Top comm mean 3/4 long color
Bottom comm mean 5+ long color, being a "forcing" comm because nobody can block you.

That one I know extremely well.
And I fully agree with the 3/4 long color.
Note that bottom comm have various meaning and is situationnal. If nobody ever commed, that's where you should go to try to exhaust two others colors. If you are commander, you can even not comm, and play your highs one by one, and once that's clear, comm another color, either for you to win it, or as a negative.
[edit: Alternatively, you comm after everyone got a chance to comm once, so that a hand b159 g148 p25 y14 can know which color they should comm first.]
But I usually prefer to wait for others to comm, and if your long color is commed, comm where you are weak to ask to goes there first. So they goes there first, you discard.
Subs plays are potentially always positive turn 1. I still don't know about that, but that transform losses into wins (weak hand+r23) and transform wins into losses (not being able to get the lead back).

And that post was years old. It's fine if you want answers though.

[Tuut Tuut tis Luut]

I have a personal convention for "Win with a 1" missions :
Top comm mean 3/4 long color
Bottom comm mean 5+ long color, being a "forcing" comm because nobody can block you.

I'm very much not a fan of (pre-agreed) conventions, I see their value for high level play in hanabi, for example.

But there is no need for it in the crew. All the current meta can be deduced on logic alone