robber bug

[Krazmov]

I rolled a 7 with 8 cards. I could keep them as I Had a City wall. I played a monopoly before moving the robber which gave me another 4 cards. I was then forced to give away 6 cards because of the rolled 7.

According to the rules the amount of cards is checked only once after the dice roll and not during the whole turn?

[Jellby]

Please DO NOT POST BUGS on this forum. Please report (and vote) bugs on : https://boardgamearena.com/bugs

[Krazmov]

I am Not 100% sure if it a bug and would like to hear other opinons.

[euklid314]

I also think this is a bug.

While in base Catan you are allowed to play development cards even before rolling the dice this is not allowed with progress cards in Catan C&K (except Alchemist). According to the rule book the turn order forces you to deal with the dice effects (barbarian ship, ressources, commodities, ...) before you are allowed to trade/build/play knights and progress cards (page 4).

Thus the first bug seems to lie in the fact you could play a progress card before moving the robber.

The second bug lies in the fact that the number of hand cards must be checked when 7 is rolled, not when the robber is moved.

Please report the bug and link the bug report here such that we can upvote it.

Btw: the rule book is a bit ambiguous on the first bug I mentioned. For progress cards it is mentioned that you might play them after you rolled the dice (rulebook, page 6). One could argue that you might play them before moving the robber - which seems to contradict the "Turn Overview" given on page 5 of the rule book. Surely one of the rules experts can help us here...

Still the 2nd bug remains. Can you give us the game number, Krazmov?

[euklid314]

From the Catan FAQ:

***
Progress Cards: Engineer - If I receive the Engineer card on the same turn a “7” is rolled, may I build a city wall before discarding cards?

No. You may play Progress Cards only after the dice result is resolved (only exception: Alchemist).
***

This makes it very obvious that the 7 (i.e., discarding cards) must be resolved *before* any progress card can be played. Same with a Monopoly thus. The 7 must be resolved before a Monopoly progress card can be played.

100% a bug.

[Waspq]

///

[Krazmov]

I had five progress cards, but think I was not forced to play one immediatly.

Report: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=129440

Game: https://boardgamearena.com/14/catan?table=530871005

[euklid314]

I think Waspq found the reason for the bug. It is less a turn order bug than a five card bug!

According to the rules, the turn order is
*) the dice are rolled
*) the results of the event die (symbols) are resolved, i.e., the barbarian ship moves or progress cards are drawn
*) the red and yellow number dice are resolved, i.e. ressources/commodities are produced or 7-events trigger
*) the player on turn can trade/build/perform knight actions/play progress cards in any order

Thus first thing that happens in a turn is the barbarian ship moving or progress cards being distributed (depending on the event die). In this phase it is *not* allowed to play progress cards even if you have 5! If it is not your turn you have to immediately discard a card, though. But if it is your turn you just keep the 5 cards.

Only after the progress cards are distributed the effect of the 7 is resolved (discarding hand cards if over the 7 limit, moving the robber,...).

If I remember correctly I was always forced to discard or play a progress card immediately when I got 5 cards and it was my turn. This is an incorrect implementation and the reason for the bug described by Krazmov.

Instead of forcing you to play a card BGA should prohibit you to play it until all dice results are resolved. Only after you have ended your move there should be the check whether you have 5+ progress cards.

[darhf]

The way the game is implemented right now indeed forces the 5th card to be played instantly.

This is a strict interpretation of the rule.

I clarified the situation with the Catan team, they asked to allow to play the fifth card during the whole player turn, and indeed it was a house rule or an old rule which was not repeated in today's rulebook. The FAQ entry was added back as a result of this conversation.

The BGA version will be changed soon.

[euklid314]

The way the game is implemented right now indeed forces the 5th card to be played instantly.

This is a strict interpretation of the rule.

I clarified the situation with the Catan team, they asked to allow to play the fifth card during the whole player turn, and indeed it was a house rule or an old rule which was not repeated in today's rulebook. The FAQ entry was added back as a result of this conversation.

The BGA version will be changed soon.

Very interesting. I got the feeling that the rule book was not 100% precise on this matter - but the FAQ on catan.com seemed to clarify it.

I try to summarize it the way I understood it. Not sure if I interpret everything correctly.

*) In the original interpretation of the rule book if it was your own turn you were forced to play or discard a progress card (and only one card) as soon as you got a 5th one. Thus this single progress card was played outside of the usual turn order. This is implemented at BGA at the moment.

*) And then the newer interpretation of the rule book (clarified also via FAQ) determined that progress cards could only be played in the currect turn order (i.e., after the dice effects are resolved) - thus you are now allowed to keep more than 4 cards during your own turn. This will be implemented at BGA in the future.

Have I understood everything correctly? I think that the newer interpretation of the rules is superior to the older one, thus I am looking forward to the change.