Discuss - when to "play out" and when to "pass".

[Yahyra]

Hi all,

I was hoping to hear some of y'alls thoughts on when is it best / a winning move to pass a generation with money up and when you should "play out".

I read on this on social media and thought about it quite a bit.

https://old.reddit.com/r/TerraformingMa ... nerations/

If this post is against the spirit / rules of this forum, sincere apologies. Please delete.

The game in question was on BGA, here's the link to it:

https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=535680566


This is a 3p game so my experience is very low (I prefer 2p).

The player who won passed the first 2 gens (or 3?). He was setting up plays. He won so it is hard to argue against his / her moves.

One of the cards he had, however, was flooding.


My instinct is that flooding should have been played soon. My reasoning is the sooner you flood, the more choices you have (cards? steel? titanium? plants).

In 2p, the -4 MC attack is more important. In three player, less so?


So even though the person who, I think I would have played out that flooding earlier (perhaps move 1 gen 1).


What do you all think?


How cool would it be to have replays we can play into (like in Starcraft / 2) where we could rewind the game and play on differently from a point? Of course the cards in hand being known, deck draws could change, etc. .


Anyways, looking forward to some discussion and continuing to learn from everyone. Best wishes.

[cranesflyhigh]

In 3p a lot of the times you do not know if you are going to be the Terraformer or the Engine from the beginning of the game. Algae and NRA are both cards that have hefty requirements. You also are not sure what milestone you might be gunning for. Seeing Helion is a question mark on their ability to go for Terraformer.

1st gen not playing Flooding I am pretty sure was due to another player claiming the 2 cards spot, cause then the ocean can be later used for the 2 plants for a possible conversion, and they had no immediate use for either the steel or the titanium, not being able to actually hit someone with the -4mc.

2nd gen they drafted Indentured and 2 high heat req cards (Farming and Trees) and was first player: again, nothing to play there really, so pass.

Third gen they drafted Large Convoy - a late game point card -, and Livestock - something to Large Convoy on. Once again: later game plays, nothing to really do. They could have gone Large Convoy Flooding and conversion here - but that seems fairly inefficient honestly.

4th gen: Immigrant city and Underground city from the draft. This is a line where they can go for Mayor. Even here they had to standard project a power to get Immigrant out. Not sure about the standard project aquifer move though, really.

I am fairly certain if they had the choice to draft production cards that are playable early they would have played them. The draft did not go that way. I would call this happening a circumstance. In TfM you are playing the cards you are dealt.

[Yahyra]

I guess what my comment on flooding "comes down to" is:

If you have an ocean playing card, what is the best turning point / decision point to play it? If you play it early, you can get 2 titanium, 2 steel , 2 cards (not an option that example game?), 1 card or 2 plants (and perhaps a placement bonus).

Given that in the example game, flooding wasn't played until much earlier (I didn't watch the whole thing, was it gen4?), the opportunity cost lost was 3 gens worth of 1 MC income plus whichever placement bonuses the player didn't take.


Thanks for the insightful comments and discussion.

[Camzeee]

You pass when you can feasibly get more value out of the card later. It's really that simple. By passing you give up on the potential TR income/bonus for one round and instead get more flexibility to decide after another research phase.

Good players can tell which line is stronger. An example is SP'ing a City. You don't SP a city just because you have 25MC in hand and nothing to play usually because that money can be invested better in the next gen if you get more suitable cards.

In that specific game, the player didn't have anything to invest his money in at that point efficiently so it was better for him to just pass and wait to decide on his preferred direction. This paid off for him since he got Earth Catapult.

[cranesflyhigh]

I guess what my comment on flooding "comes down to" is:

If you have an ocean playing card, what is the best turning point / decision point to play it? If you play it early, you can get 2 titanium, 2 steel , 2 cards (not an option that example game?), 1 card or 2 plants (and perhaps a placement bonus).

Given that in the example game, flooding wasn't played until much earlier (I didn't watch the whole thing, was it gen4?), the opportunity cost lost was 3 gens worth of 1 MC income plus whichever placement bonuses the player didn't take.


Thanks for the insightful comments and discussion.

A single card can be helpful and might have been reasonable to play. I probably would have just ripped it. But they had no use for the either mineral there, so why risk getting raidersed or why risk your plants blown up, so it is mostly the TR making 1 mc extra and maybe they valued the -4mc a lot as it is a heavy hit early game.

I think what they thought that with 2 cards covered, there are 3 more spots for engine-y oceans: 1 card, 2 steel, 2 titanium. That makes it 4 oceans if others go for it and they can surprise Flood to Algae and get their plant prod started. Also a point of contention might be the other ocean req cards with lower reqs that he did not see and others could have: Moss, Algae, even the 2 ocean req bumper could be scary if someone got the power for it, since you wanna do lotsa greeneries with Algae and NRA in hand. Mostly guessing here as people play differently - I am honestly utterly confused by the gen4 SP Aquifier play.