Banlist discussion for TfM

[Skelebat]

If anything in this game feels like it enables truly egregious stuff to me it's actually Interplanetary Cinematics. Not for its average value which is good but pretty reasonable, but for how busted the semi-common busted opening hands with it can be, when you get one or some of the few cards that can use the Steel efficiently. Advanced Alloys combo the main thing, Space Elevator/Earth Catapult/Research Outpost make it worse, there is also decent filler like Mohole Area and some other cards like that.

But mainly being able to play an already good card in advanced alloys and pushing +20mc value on an already 70mc t1 is kinda nuts if you can spend it, and that spending sometimes isn't earned with skill it's just handed to you in your opener. This would be less of an issue if opening hands were drafted probably but as it is now it feels very hard to play against when it happens.

[JovianBro]

If there's any card that should be banned, it's Underground Detonations. 10 MC for 2 heat prod after paying for the card itself? That's just busted IMO. If you get it gen 1 and use it every gen, assuming a 12 gen game, that's 24 heat production! Just fund Thermalist gen 1 and don't stop. I don't think -2 on all cards is even remotely as good as the ability to destroy your opponent on thermalist. Also, if there's any reason I would pick up and play AI central, it would be to find Underground Detonations.

Another great contender for a banlist would be security fleet. It's basically birds without the oxygen requirement if you have titanium production. If someone plays this card you must immediately AMC them and pray they don't find more titanium production.



On another note, a considerably weaker yet still ban worthy card is Protected Habs. It reduces the effectiveness of all asteroids your opponent may have and gives you a tempo advantage because you don't have to worry about immediately converting your plants. Terraforming Mars has a limited interaction system and killing plants is a huge aspect of that system. Completely nullifying this ruins the game IMO. Especially in a 3p game where your opponents take each other down with asteroids while you're left doing your own thing, it's an unfair advantage. It's definitely not a guaranteed win if you play it, but for me it just ruins the game. If there's anything worse than getting hit by Deimos for a full greenery, it's seeing your opponent play Protected Habs right before you played Deimos.

[RoyalRook]

If there's any card that should be banned, it's Underground Detonations. 10 MC for 2 heat prod after paying for the card itself? That's just busted IMO. If you get it gen 1 and use it every gen, assuming a 12 gen game, that's 24 heat production! Just fund Thermalist gen 1 and don't stop. I don't think -2 on all cards is even remotely as good as the ability to destroy your opponent on thermalist. Also, if there's any reason I would pick up and play AI central, it would be to find Underground Detonations.

Another great contender for a banlist would be security fleet. It's basically birds without the oxygen requirement if you have titanium production. If someone plays this card you must immediately AMC them and pray they don't find more titanium production.



On another note, a considerably weaker yet still ban worthy card is Protected Habs. It reduces the effectiveness of all asteroids your opponent may have and gives you a tempo advantage because you don't have to worry about immediately converting your plants. Terraforming Mars has a limited interaction system and killing plants is a huge aspect of that system. Completely nullifying this ruins the game IMO. Especially in a 3p game where your opponents take each other down with asteroids while you're left doing your own thing, it's an unfair advantage. It's definitely not a guaranteed win if you play it, but for me it just ruins the game. If there's anything worse than getting hit by Deimos for a full greenery, it's seeing your opponent play Protected Habs right before you played Deimos.

You are being sarcastic right? Protected Habitats aside. You are scared of the F- cards in underground detonations and security fleets? Those are the bottom two cards in the entire game expansions included. Horrible valued, lay waste to your cash and tempo. You will win less than 5 percent of your games against above average players if you played any of those two cards. .0001% if both are played in the same game. Oh my lord.

Just checked your ranking, haha good one, I didn’t realize this is a joke thread.

On a serious note, the only card I would considering banning in a 2p tournament setting would be AI Central. Once complete in a early gen for 2p, it erases lots of skills, and its gg.

[charliec247]

Hackers

It's either completely useless, or when it's effective it's game breaking to the point where it's unfun for the hacked player. Getting hacked early is pretty much a death sentence in most cases, yet you still have to sit through and play out the remainder or the game or 50% completion so you can concede and not lose karma points.

[cranesflyhigh]

If there's any card that should be banned, it's Underground Detonations. 10 MC for 2 heat prod after paying for the card itself? That's just busted IMO. If you get it gen 1 and use it every gen, assuming a 12 gen game, that's 24 heat production! Just fund Thermalist gen 1 and don't stop. I don't think -2 on all cards is even remotely as good as the ability to destroy your opponent on thermalist. Also, if there's any reason I would pick up and play AI central, it would be to find Underground Detonations.

Another great contender for a banlist would be security fleet. It's basically birds without the oxygen requirement if you have titanium production. If someone plays this card you must immediately AMC them and pray they don't find more titanium production.



On another note, a considerably weaker yet still ban worthy card is Protected Habs. It reduces the effectiveness of all asteroids your opponent may have and gives you a tempo advantage because you don't have to worry about immediately converting your plants. Terraforming Mars has a limited interaction system and killing plants is a huge aspect of that system. Completely nullifying this ruins the game IMO. Especially in a 3p game where your opponents take each other down with asteroids while you're left doing your own thing, it's an unfair advantage. It's definitely not a guaranteed win if you play it, but for me it just ruins the game. If there's anything worse than getting hit by Deimos for a full greenery, it's seeing your opponent play Protected Habs right before you played Deimos.

You are being sarcastic right? Protected Habitats aside. You are scared of the F- cards in underground detonations and security fleets? Those are the bottom two cards in the entire game expansions included. Horrible valued, lay waste to your cash and tempo. You will win less than 5 percent of your games against above average players if you played any of those two cards. .0001% if both are played in the same game. Oh my lord.

Just checked your ranking, haha good one, I didn’t realize this is a joke thread.

On a serious note, the only card I would considering banning in a 2p tournament setting would be AI Central. Once complete in a early gen for 2p, it erases lots of skills, and its gg.

I guess you forgot that you produce after the game is done, so pushing 10mc for the 2 heat prod last gen makes all the difference! Dets best card ever.

Thread was not meant as a troll thread tho, and I think JovianBro probably just lost a game to plant rush with habs

[cranesflyhigh]

Hackers

It's either completely useless, or when it's effective it's game breaking to the point where it's unfun for the hacked player. Getting hacked early is pretty much a death sentence in most cases, yet you still have to sit through and play out the remainder or the game or 50% completion so you can concede and not lose karma points.

Nah, it is mostly just completely useless. Very rare are the cases where it is actually worth playing and it doesn't hurt you as much or more than your opponent. Even if you get hit by it, it's not so bad.

[JovianBro]

If there's any card that should be banned, it's Underground Detonations. 10 MC for 2 heat prod after paying for the card itself? That's just busted IMO. If you get it gen 1 and use it every gen, assuming a 12 gen game, that's 24 heat production! Just fund Thermalist gen 1 and don't stop. I don't think -2 on all cards is even remotely as good as the ability to destroy your opponent on thermalist. Also, if there's any reason I would pick up and play AI central, it would be to find Underground Detonations.

Another great contender for a banlist would be security fleet. It's basically birds without the oxygen requirement if you have titanium production. If someone plays this card you must immediately AMC them and pray they don't find more titanium production.



On another note, a considerably weaker yet still ban worthy card is Protected Habs. It reduces the effectiveness of all asteroids your opponent may have and gives you a tempo advantage because you don't have to worry about immediately converting your plants. Terraforming Mars has a limited interaction system and killing plants is a huge aspect of that system. Completely nullifying this ruins the game IMO. Especially in a 3p game where your opponents take each other down with asteroids while you're left doing your own thing, it's an unfair advantage. It's definitely not a guaranteed win if you play it, but for me it just ruins the game. If there's anything worse than getting hit by Deimos for a full greenery, it's seeing your opponent play Protected Habs right before you played Deimos.

You are being sarcastic right? Protected Habitats aside. You are scared of the F- cards in underground detonations and security fleets? Those are the bottom two cards in the entire game expansions included. Horrible valued, lay waste to your cash and tempo. You will win less than 5 percent of your games against above average players if you played any of those two cards. .0001% if both are played in the same game. Oh my lord.

Just checked your ranking, haha good one, I didn’t realize this is a joke thread.

On a serious note, the only card I would considering banning in a 2p tournament setting would be AI Central. Once complete in a early gen for 2p, it erases lots of skills, and its gg.

I guess you forgot that you produce after the game is done, so pushing 10mc for the 2 heat prod last gen makes all the difference! Dets best card ever.

Thread was not meant as a troll thread tho, and I think JovianBro probably just lost a game to plant rush with habs

Just thought those cards deserve some love once in a while xD


Regarding Habs, while it is very strong, I don't think it's broken or anything. I feel that it ruins the interaction element of the game. It's just an immunity card that is boring. Pay 8 MC to be immune to all plant hate and just play your own game without worrying about managing plants. It just takes away from the game and is kind of braindead.

[efidiaf]

There are some powerful cards, but there are none that destroys the fun.

I'd prefer some corporation rebalances.

[efidiaf]

Hackers

It's either completely useless, or when it's effective it's game breaking to the point where it's unfun for the hacked player. Getting hacked early is pretty much a death sentence in most cases, yet you still have to sit through and play out the remainder or the game or 50% completion so you can concede and not lose karma points.

I agree with this. Also, maybe the card number 178 Heat Contraction (I don't know the exact English name).

It's fine, except that this is too critical for Helion, which is already one of the weakest corporations.

Imagine taking -2 Heat production at Turn 1 with Helion...

[brh2113]

I don't think any card is game-breaking enough to be ban-worthy, but hypothetically, if I could remove 1 card, it would definitely be Protected Habitats. It's just unfun to play against and invalidates a lot of the tension around conversions.