Can anyone tell me what I should do in this situation?

[huahuo1hao]

I know my 1 is playable. My last player gave me a hint of 3，i think this 3 is k3,for my next player to play k5,At the same time, I don't want to lose the mul4，so i give a green clue to mul4 g1 mul3 as green.
Then k5 played,k1bomb.
When i was clued 3,Do I need to play my 1? If i play my 1 ,then k5 play,then mul3 play.Will my 3 tips be considered as finesse+bluff or layered?
I'm a little confused

[Romain672]

Your picture doesn't load for me

[Blacktango]

Here is the broken image:



This was probably a reverse finesse + bluff clue attempt.
You had the Bk3, the Bk5 is played, and then the Bk1 is bombed as a Bk4 (instead of the M3 as you said).

Since the player who clued 3 can't be sure what you will do, they should just not give such a clue.
Reverse bluff is a very dangerous thing (even if it is safe in a few cases) because the clued player can easily break it by giving a clue, in such a way that no bluff can be revealed anymore. This leads to a bomb.

Such a clue is usually not worth the risk, and here it steals bluff opportunities on Bk5 and M3, or the opportunity to give the M self-finesse.
Also, the player who gave the clue had a play, so there was not much value in skipping and giving a clue, here.

The clue might have been ok (at least safe) if you had no token left.

[Silene]

[...]
Since the player who clued 3 can't be sure what you will do, they should just not give such a clue.
[...]
The clue might have been ok (at least safe) if you had no token left.

I wanted to respond exactly this! But hey, it's already there

[Romain672]

It's a shadow finesse and you play slot 3 (first finesse position) to indicate the position of m4 (first finesse position). Hum... That don't even work, and I believe even if you remove k5, having k5+k4+k3 or like y1+y2+y3 should got priority above self shadow finesse? I'm not even sure. Joke aside,
Yeah this is a great example of not knowing if it's a layered finesse or not for the second player after you.

If I simplify it:
Bob: x-x-x-(b1)
Cathy: r1-x-x-x
Donald: g1-x-x-x
Emily: x-r3-x-x
Alice clues red to Emily.

Bob then can either assumes they got r2 and clue g1 for any reason.
Or they can let the situation goes and plays b1.

1a) If Bob have no clue left, know what is going on (either they have negative r2 on all his hand)(or they are locked: have all cards on their hand saved), or shouldn't clue anyway (per example because they got three 1s in a 5players games), then the clue should work on bga, and this would not be a layered finesse.
1b) If Bob didn't got a b1 playable, but can discard normally or clue normally, then that clue should be a layered finesse to get r2 on Donald's hand.
1c) If none of the two are true, like it is in your situation, then you got an ambiguou situation where some players could assume Bob should never clue, and others could assume Bob could clue if they want to. And that lead to bomb and descynchronisation.

2) With hgroup even case 1a has been negliged for simplicity, and it's always the case 1b even if Bob has 0 clue left, which just resolve the problem.


So yeah... That clue shouldn't happen with strangers

And note that even case 1a have some risk since it require everyone around the table to understand what is going, so I would not advise it without great upside if you want elo, but it's a very fun clue to do though imo.

[shaun hoversten]

This is an example of having good intentions but bad results. The clue looks great in theory since, even though you don't know if that is MC3 or k3, you should play the 1 first anyways and will have time to find out. Problem is, the person with k5 can't let MC3, green 1, and MC4 go when all could be captured with one clue.

If I am sitting in the k5 person's spot, I assume I have k5 and k4 on left in order, I can't assume it is a bluff, so I am going to clue green, and as you said, now cause a bomb.

Too often people don't think about what other's see and how they will interpret the clue, they only see their pov. They saw a chance to draw out k5 and mc3 while you played your one, but didn't think about what k5 will think. No chance they let the next person discard mc4.

Also, you should not skip to clue a non-finesse, especially when you have a play.