Major improvement about quitting players

[sourisdudesert]

@EllieK

Your problem is obviously not linked with the new system but with a bug with Targui game.

Please report it there so the developers can take care of it:
http://en.boardgamearena.com/#!bugs

[Korenwolf]

Do these changes count for both live games as well as turnbased games?

Up till now I think I got most of my over time penalties from playing turnbased games.
I usually have a lot of them running and I'm here pretty much every day, but once in a while I go offline for a couple of days.
Turnbased games I have set up myself are usually set to 1 move every 2 days, but I often forget to check this setting for turnbased games set up by others and as a result get these penalties.
If these changes also include turnbased games could that result in losing all games I am late in because someone else can make me skip all turns till the end of the game?

------------------------------

Also, these new time limits when playing games will take a lot of getting used to.
Since the changes my over time penalties have rapidly increased. Before the changes it seemed that we had a lot more time for our turns, even when using the same setting fast speed.
In a game of Tobago none of the 3 players made it out without a time penalty, that shouldn't happen
It seems that when using the setting fast speed you can easily get an over time penalty without being disconnected, etc etc and you just have to hope that the other player or players don't immediately make you skip your turn if you have a lot of actions or something to do which might bring you dangerously close in going over time...

..............................

[sprockitz]

There are certain games that automatically end if someone is expelled (no zombie code), what will happen with these games in terms of elo points? I'm concerned here with points exchanged between remaining players, since there is no easy way to determine what final scoring would be.

Also, there are several games where a missing player can be a huge advantage to someone else (generally to the person going right after the missing person). For example, in Stone Age, where the player after the missing person gets the first player action two turns in a row. To me, these games are too unbalanced once a player has left, and are practically unplayable with any kind of accurate result.

Do both types of situations described above consider results between the active players or just count the result of remaining active players as a win versus the player who quit?

In the past if one person quit others could quit without penalty, I'm assuming this is no longer the case as players are no longer considered as having left, just as having their turn skipped?

[Babyrhinorainbows]

which is a much better detractor for disconnecting in my opinion.

True. So this is your choice now: continue the game until the end and penalize them with ELO, or just abandon and penalize them only with clock penalty.

Yeah, and as I said I don't have much intention of playing a two player game with one player missing. So, in my case, the new system will punish leavers less than the old one. I don't know if that was the intention but it is odd to me. Most game sites simply give a disconnecter a game loss and everybody moves on.

[EllieK]

I'm sorry, and I'm not trying to be obtuse when I say there seem to be logical inconsistencies with your reasons for implementing the new time system. Reasons you provide for the new implementation are....

However, the current system has some major flaws.

At first, when you have a temporary Internet issue, your opponent expels you from the game and you have no way to get back if your Internet problem is fixed.

Then, some (very bad) players are quitting games when they are losing, because they prefer to get a penalty instead of loosing some precious ELO points.

If I recall correctly, in the previous system a person took an ELO penalty and time penalty. Now they take one or the other. When Babyrhinorainbow raises the issue of a player now only taking one or the other, you agree that this is correct.

which is a much better detractor for disconnecting in my opinion.

True. So this is your choice now: continue the game until the end and penalize them with ELO, or just abandon and penalize them only with clock penalty.

Yeah, and as I said I don't have much intention of playing a two player game with one player missing. So, in my case, the new system will punish leavers less than the old one. I don't know if that was the intention but it is odd to me. Most game sites simply give a disconnecter a game loss and everybody moves on.

So some very bad players who used to take a time and ELO penalty (your point #2 above) now only take one or the other. Is the goal to lessen the severity of being "a very bad player"? Are you attempting to encourage quitting? And why must another player's internet connectivity issues suddenly become everyone else's problem.

[b3nsmall]

* You can also choose to abandon the game: a player out of time automatically accept to abandon the game.

I like all the changes, and this might not be the right spot to post this, but a lot of players in Hanabi are abandoning the game when something goes wrong to avoid any loss of ELO. ELO for hanabi needs a complete overhaul, as it should encourage players to strive for perfect scores, not just play very safe.

There is also a ton of tabletalk during games, should only be able to chat before and after games that have ELO on, with a few more preset chat buttons:
Are you there and just thinking?
I wish to discuss this situation at the end.

[chemun]

Can you check what happened in my game Tzolk'in #12164026?

We were playing, but then it said that the game had been abandoned by all players and finalized. I have spoken with one of the players and at least he didn't abandon, neither have I, so I suppose it is a bug.

[Liallan]

This means that there is no punishment in disconnecting from my opponents perspective. A little weird.

There is: your opponent will get a "red clock" penalty. Before that he would have received a "red leave" penalty. This is quite the same.

How is this the same? Anyone can get a red clock penalty on occasion because sometimes things happen. Out of all the turns someone might take in a game, there can be a problem on ONE turn and it's not really that big a deal. But if someone totally abandons the game, that is an entirely different thing. These are NOT the same.

[Liallan]

What was wrong with the previous system? Who cried about it and caused you to thoughtlessly implement a new, untestested system whereby rude players can now "game" the whole site.

Before I say this, I just want you to be aware that I do not think this was a good solution to the problem, so I'm not condoning this action of the site.

But, LOTS and LOTS of people cried about it. I specifically came to the forums just now to complain about it, again. The abandon penalties were not solving anything, and those "very bad people" still abandon games. It's a serious problem. And it does need a solution. So the previous system was not solving anything.

But again, I don't think this is a good solution, at all. Just making sure you understand that there were definitely serious problems going on with the old system.

[Fishwick]

This means that there is no punishment in disconnecting from my opponents perspective. A little weird.

There is: your opponent will get a "red clock" penalty. Before that he would have received a "red leave" penalty. This is quite the same.

How is this the same? Anyone can get a red clock penalty on occasion because sometimes things happen. Out of all the turns someone might take in a game, there can be a problem on ONE turn and it's not really that big a deal. But if someone totally abandons the game, that is an entirely different thing. These are NOT the same.

Agree, I play with someone who plays on a tablet, so she times out quite a lot. She wouldn't just leave a game, which I think is a lot ruder.