Banlist discussion for TfM

[ArchDevious]

Ban Insects.

Or at least can someone please explain to me why worms gives plant prod at 1:2 ratio for microbe tags but insects pay 1:1 for the much more common plant icon??? If anything it should be reversed.

[Nekojin]

Ban Insects.

Or at least can someone please explain to me why worms gives plant prod at 1:2 ratio for microbe tags but insects pay 1:1 for the much more common plant icon??? If anything it should be reversed.

Worms: Costs 8, requires 4% Oxygen, gives one Plant Production for every 2 Microbes. Has a Microbe tag, so it counts for its own effect.

Insects: Costs 9, requires 6% Oxygen, gives one Plant Production for every 1 Plant tag. Has a Microbe tab, so it DOES NOT count for its own effect.

In the base game (including Corporate Era), there are 15 cards with Microbe tags*, and most of them either have no requirements or low requirements - they're suitable for early-game play. Three of them are early-game-only (Temp Max requirements).

* Not counting Virus in this, because it's an Event card, and Worms can't benefit from its tag.

In comparison, there are 20 cards with Plant tags (not counting Ecoline), but About a third of them are Mid-game cards (have moderate requirements), and about a quarter of them are Late-game cards (have high requirements, might not be played until near the end of the game). Only one is an early-game-only card.

The argument can be made that you can get more value out of Insects, but its ideal usage arc is going to put it later in the game, so fewer turns that you're going to benefit from the increased production. In contrast, Worms benefits greatly from an early-game microbe rush, and can produce more production sooner.

It seems more or less balanced to me.

[cranesflyhigh]

Ban Insects.

Or at least can someone please explain to me why worms gives plant prod at 1:2 ratio for microbe tags but insects pay 1:1 for the much more common plant icon??? If anything it should be reversed.

Worms: Costs 8, requires 4% Oxygen, gives one Plant Production for every 2 Microbes. Has a Microbe tag, so it counts for its own effect.

Insects: Costs 9, requires 6% Oxygen, gives one Plant Production for every 1 Plant tag. Has a Microbe tab, so it DOES NOT count for its own effect.

In the base game (including Corporate Era), there are 15 cards with Microbe tags*, and most of them either have no requirements or low requirements - they're suitable for early-game play. Three of them are early-game-only (Temp Max requirements).

* Not counting Virus in this, because it's an Event card, and Worms can't benefit from its tag.

In comparison, there are 20 cards with Plant tags (not counting Ecoline), but About a third of them are Mid-game cards (have moderate requirements), and about a quarter of them are Late-game cards (have high requirements, might not be played until near the end of the game). Only one is an early-game-only card.

The argument can be made that you can get more value out of Insects, but its ideal usage arc is going to put it later in the game, so fewer turns that you're going to benefit from the increased production. In contrast, Worms benefits greatly from an early-game microbe rush, and can produce more production sooner.

It seems more or less balanced to me.

You should also look at the specific plant cards vs microbe cards. The best microbe cards are working together well with plants: Viral Enhancer, Insects, Decomposers, Advanced Ecosystems. The worst ones are fairly situational, with stuff like Regolith Eaters and ECF. Meanwhile plant cards always do something very useful to you: give you plants. Even the worst ones. You will play that Moss exactly due to the synergies it gives due to its plant tag, which is partly the 1:1 ratio on Insects. Not to mention Eco Zone, one of the best point scoring cards of the game benefits from plants, but not microbes. NRA, probably the best space event (competition: GIA and Deimos) needs plant tags.

Insects is one of the best cards in the game. Worms is barely playable in most games, you are very happy if you get 2 plant prods out of it, and you probably had to work for it.

[ArchDevious]

I get 1 or 2 plant prod from worms, i usually dont bother. Insects I can get like 8, counting the bonus turn it wins games so often

but for real the real op is ai central, make it 5 sci req at least

[BlackHatGuy]

Some cards are much stronger than others, this is true.

However they’re merely strong, not insurmountable. And there’s actually quite a few of them. There’s ~200 cards in corporate era, and about 10 I’d put at the top of a tier list. So that’s 5% of all cards in the deck. The fact that there’s so many helps keep things somewhat balanced even though the individual cards definitely aren’t.

[SquirrelMama]

Hi-I'm 100% sure I've been hacked because their on 6 games going turn-based that I didn't start. I was playing earlier and when I started by karma was 84. They after I played a game my karma was all of a sudden 64. I was confused but thought I'll play one game and go back to arena. So I did, and they tryed to go back to arena and my karma was in the 40s! So I looked at my account and noticed all the turn-based games. What can I do?

[Yahyra]

Hi-I'm 100% sure I've been hacked because their on 6 games going turn-based that I didn't start. I was playing earlier and when I started by karma was 84. They after I played a game my karma was all of a sudden 64. I was confused but thought I'll play one game and go back to arena. So I did, and they tryed to go back to arena and my karma was in the 40s! So I looked at my account and noticed all the turn-based games. What can I do?

Hi there. This thread was a discussion on project carsd for T Mars. I think you want to post either in the support forum for BGA or file a moderation or bug report? In any case I don't think this thread is going to get you help. Best wishes.

[Taruassassin]

I mean honestly i just want Underground Detonations banned because it should just be removed from the game. It cost vs effect an overall tempo is trap for new player. It makes me feel bad when i win knowing they not only played and used it but often times drafted it. I honestly cant think of any project card all the way to colonies that is this bad or even close.