Major improvement about quitting players

[Occupeep]

Something is messed up now in Hearts - I am running out of time and that never happens. The new timer in Hearts is way too quick.

[Fishwick]

Yeah I thought it would be used for that reason. Some players will go for any advantage. I guess he's entitled, but it's lacking sportsmanship and I can't see how it's satisfying.

[sourisdudesert]

The system has been updated 15 minutes ago to take your remark into account.

The whole explanation of the system has been written in the corresponding help page:
http://en.boardgamearena.com/#!doc/Game_clock

What we've done:

• We reintroduce "leave" penalties for players who don't get back to a game before it ends.
• We apply ELO penalty to quitters when abandoning a game. This way, "skipping a player's turn" + "abandoning the game" is the exact equivalent to the old "expel a player" function. However, we still recommend you to play the game until the end so you can get ELO points you deserve.

PS: we encourage you to translate the updated help page above to your own language.

[hiddendragon]

Would it be possible to reduce or exclude the timer for skipped players? I can understand if you give them time for a few turns but to play an entire game where you need to wait several minutes every time it's the turn of a game leaver can be excruciating.

Also in some games, skipping a single turn can often be advantageous. Players may take advantage of that.

Edit: Sorry, I had only skipped players in turn based games at that point. Looks like in realtime games skipped players are automatically skipped until the end so I have no complaints.

[Liallan]

I don't play Perudo, but perhaps an option to resign would be beneficial. It's a normal part of chess, if someone is beaten they throw in the towel. It's good sportsmanship and perhaps would improve the abandonment situation. Obviously this only really helps 2 player games.

Sorry - haven't read all 5 pages of this yet, but I doubt anyone responded directly about Perudo. It's a multi-player game and is not fun with 2 people, and gets weird when you're down to 2 people. Best to start with 6-7 people, and it's an elimination game. For the sake of ELO, the order of elimination is important: first eliminated comes in last place and so on. So you can't just resign, but you also can't play any longer. (It's no big deal to just ignore the game and do something else until everyone else is finished.) But people tend to abandon it once they've been eliminated. I find this happens on this game more than any other game I play. (Not that I know that many.)

[Liallan]

From the wiki page...

On turn-based games, you are warned by email when you are running out of time. As soon as you are out of time, your next turn is skipped.

Is this saying that for turn-based, it's going to happen automatically? What if I prefer to wait on them and don't want that to happen automatically? When all players agree to skip that player's turn, that's one thing. They can decide whether skipping the turns will ruin that particular game, and also decide whether they think the current situation should determine ELO.

If it happens automatically with turn-based, then there is no choice about allowing that person more time. I play mostly turn-based, and I'm fairly lenient about time... Someone might be going along fine, something comes up, they go over time... I'd rather wait on them if I think they are coming back. I don't want their turn skipped cause I think it screws with the game. In my experience, with turn-based, 98% of the abandons happen towards the beginning of the game, and not because someone is losing. (There's exceptions.) And if someone is going to be a chronic slow player, you find that out pretty quickly. I'm not concerned about someone who keeps up with turns but then has something unexpected happen, and I don't want it skipping their turn automatically.

And... why do I now have 5 days to take a turn? Not that I mind having 5 days. But what is the point of a 1 turn a day game if you have 5 days? This whole thing with turn-based time has been totally screwed up recently. It started giving people 3 days to take turns... (Except me. I got a couple of over-time penalties for being one day later while other people were getting 3 days...) And now it's 5 days. One advantage here over Yucata is if I want to play faster, I can take a "1 turn a day" game and in theory it should go faster. And if someone is being slower than that a lot, that should show up in their percent of over-time penalties. Well, not if they have FIVE days to take a turn!!! What the heck?

I also do not see how any of this is going to keep someone from abandoning a game. Unless you're saying that option no longer exists. You haven't actually ever said that.

[Msome]

Just had my first experience of skipping turns. In Hearts. Did not go well for me - the zombie played worse than the human, of course, and that changed the game result. The worst of it is that I had no choice - I was required to play in a tainted game. I'd much rather of waited until the player returned, or ejected them. But one player wanted to force the skip, and another did not want to abandon the game, so I was forced to play it out and get a worse ELO. Please, there should be some option so I can avoid being in games which allow turn-skipping. Perhaps make skipping require a vote, like abandoning?

[Karumah]

I had the same issue as EllieK above. In Seasons #12194693, my opponent quit mid action. Your interface "zombie" doesn't know what to do in such instances, so you receive an error message when you attempt to skip the absent player's turn. This results in either you leaving and taking the penalty, or abandoning the game where no one gets a penalty, though one player obviously deserved one. There are two fixes for this:

1) If a player leaves mid turn and you choose to skip his turn, any actions he took (or started to take) during his turn are undone. You have the capability to replay moves, so undoing a move or returning the game to a previous state shouldn't be too difficult.

2) If skipping isn't allowed, or players choose not to skip, after a certain amount of time, the option to expel the player should be available as it was in the past.

I hope you take a look at the game I listed. People are indeed gaming the system and getting out of leave penalties they used to get under the old system.

[sourisdudesert]

Sorry - haven't read all 5 pages of this yet, but I doubt anyone responded directly about Perudo.

On Perudo when you reach 0 dice you have a "your have been eliminated window" that makes you choose between continue watching the game or leave. And of course you can leave. Please give it a try and you will see that there is absolutely no problem with this game.

Is this saying that for turn-based, it's going to happen automatically?

Yes. Some players have something like 20 or 30 turn based games, and they certainly don't want to check all games to see if someone is over time. Turn based time limits are designed so that people have the time to play (with a margin) and they are even warned before, so this is not a big deal.

And... why do I now have 5 days to take a turn?

The time rules are specified explicitly when game begins. No speed profile gives 5 days per turn (but of course you can accumulate 5 days if you play fast). If this is not the case then please report a bug.

The worst of it is that I had no choice - I was required to play in a tainted game.

I agree this is not a nice situation, but with the previous system the situation would have been exactly the same.

Your interface "zombie" doesn't know what to do in such instances,

Yes it is. From 2 days we fixed a lot of these situations, and we continue to do it. Don't hesitate to report a bug if you find one that we didn't process yet.

[Fishwick]

Yes. Some players have something like 20 or 30 turn based games, and they certainly don't want to check all games to see if someone is over time. Turn based time limits are designed so that people have the time to play (with a margin) and they are even warned before, so this is not a big deal.

Can't auto skip be an option for a player to turn on/off? I would only do it if it's the only way I think the game will finish.