Eliminating the "Friendly Robber" Rule

[marknibb]

BTW....in the places where you can learn about the game here on BGA - it is posted that "Friendly Robber is not a part of the games official ruleset.
So lets remove it from the ARENA "competitve" game playing area.


Lack of official recognition: The "Friendly Robber" rule is not a part of the game's official ruleset. This inconsistency can lead to confusion and disagreements among players, as there is no clear consensus on how to handle situations that arise from its use. Sometimes people, not being activated the option, asks for using it anyway, others expect to wait for all to have their 3 points...

[Mathew5000]

But if I imagine a 3-player game where 2 players dont build a 3rd VP and one player does (playing traditionally) it is hard to imagine that this player can make much progress. 2 opponents will always block and steal him whenever they get a 7 and he has to place it on the desert or another neutral hex if he himself gets a 7.

I looked through some of my recent games trying to find a counterexample — i.e. where one player played traditionally while the other two refrained from building until at least move 200, and the "traditional" player prevailed. I could not find such a counterexample (usually because there were two players who built settlements before move 200).

We're not really in disagreement; I think you're correct that in general that one player is at a disadvantage. I'm just saying that the traditional player could still win with a bit of luck from the dice.

Also, there are times when you need to build early or else an opponent will take an intersection you need; for example in this game just after move #92:



In that screencap, it's Blue's turn; Orange has three VP showing already. If Blue builds at the 6-5-4 intersection, only Purple will have immunity to the robber (also having nice access to wheat and ore). But if Blue holds off building there, then Purple threatens to do so (and since Blue is on the wood port, that 6-5-4 spot is highly valuable to Blue).

The point is that yes, with FR enabled you should try to build roads so as to block your opponents from desirable spots, without actually building on those spots yourself until as late as possible; however, often the only way to block your opponent from a particular spot, is to build there yourself.

[euklid314]

BTW....in the places where you can learn about the game here on BGA - it is posted that "Friendly Robber is not a part of the games official ruleset.
So lets remove it from the ARENA "competitve" game playing area.


Lack of official recognition: The "Friendly Robber" rule is not a part of the game's official ruleset. This inconsistency can lead to confusion and disagreements among players, as there is no clear consensus on how to handle situations that arise from its use. Sometimes people, not being activated the option, asks for using it anyway, others expect to wait for all to have their 3 points...

Whoever posted above is incorrect. See page 3 of the official ruleset of "Traders and Barbarians":
https://www.catan.com/sites/default/fil ... 200820.pdf

Before the option FR was implemented at BGA the variant of Friendly Robber had a lot of fans on BGA already. But everybody would play its own version of the ruleset - often not the official one. Also fans of Friendly Robber would try to enforce their version of the variant to other players and bully them if they did steal from 2-VP players (although it was a Non-FR game). This situation was highly toxic and you are citing a player that was speaking about this bad situation before the FR option existed.

Now that the official variant has implemented this variant can be played by those that like it (and unfortunately there are many of those players here). The bullying of players not wanting to play FR has gotten less but it has not stopped completely (in Non-FR games)...

Since Arena had bad settings even before FR was introduced it is no big loss that they introduced FR there. Let the gurus try out if this season is a success.

If one wants to play competitively just join tournaments - the competitive level is higher there.

[euklid314]

The point is that yes, with FR enabled you should try to build roads so as to block your opponents from desirable spots, without actually building on those spots yourself until as late as possible; however, often the only way to block your opponent from a particular spot, is to build there yourself.

In the situation of the screenshot it is obvious that building the settlement is the optimal play for blue. Especially since yellow is at 3 VP already - thus the load of robbers will not be on blue alone...

Furthermore blue has no access to ore anyways. Blue decided already at the time of placing his initial settlements that he will not play for a delayed start (which must focus on development cards).

[Katekhon]

BTW....in the places where you can learn about the game here on BGA - it is posted that "Friendly Robber is not a part of the games official ruleset.
So lets remove it from the ARENA "competitve" game playing area.


Lack of official recognition: The "Friendly Robber" rule is not a part of the game's official ruleset. This inconsistency can lead to confusion and disagreements among players, as there is no clear consensus on how to handle situations that arise from its use. Sometimes people, not being activated the option, asks for using it anyway, others expect to wait for all to have their 3 points...

Whoever posted above is incorrect. See page 3 of the official ruleset of "Traders and Barbarians":
https://www.catan.com/sites/default/fil ... 200820.pdf

Before the option FR was implemented at BGA the variant of Friendly Robber had a lot of fans on BGA already. But everybody would play its own version of the ruleset - often not the official one. Also fans of Friendly Robber would try to enforce their version of the variant to other players and bully them if they did steal from 2-VP players (although it was a Non-FR game). This situation was highly toxic and you are citing a player that was speaking about this bad situation before the FR option existed.

Now that the official variant has implemented this variant can be played by those that like it (and unfortunately there are many of those players here). The bullying of players not wanting to play FR has gotten less but it has not stopped completely (in Non-FR games)...

Since Arena had bad settings even before FR was introduced it is no big loss that they introduced FR there. Let the gurus try out if this season is a success.

If one wants to play competitively just join tournaments - the competitive level is higher there.

Traders and Barbarians and the normal versions have different rules. The Friendly Robber is not a rule from the normal game.

[euklid314]

Traders and Barbarians and the normal versions have different rules. The Friendly Robber is not a rule from the normal game.

Traders and Barbarians is a collection of several (=nine) extensions of the base Catan game. Traders and Barbarians is not a different Catan game with other rules but a collection of variants of base Catan - some needing additional material, some needing no extra material (like Friendly Robber).

Thus Klaus Teubers Friendly Robber variant is clearly a variant of base Catan (although it can also be combined with Seafearers and all the other Traders and Barbarians variants/campains)

[GnimRodd]

agree

[Katekhon]

Now, a guy has already had 7 development cards with 2 points. Horrendous. In the arena. Horrible games.

[GnimRodd]

totally agree....but alas....too many people want it. I wish it was NOT an ingrained part of Arena....makes arena unplayable (along with 3 player)


HOWEVER.....as others have said....before the option was given.....games were TOXIC! and everybody just assumed that friendly robber was in play....and if you did not play FR, then you were targeted.

So......come play some of my games!:) I NEVER use easy start, Friendly Robber, just regular Catan. Mano a Mano, hand to hand combat. it's challenging! and how the game was meant to be played.

[Katekhon]

totally agree....but alas....too many people want it. I wish it was NOT an ingrained part of Arena....makes arena unplayable (along with 3 player)


HOWEVER.....as others have said....before the option was given.....games were TOXIC! and everybody just assumed that friendly robber was in play....and if you did not play FR, then you were targeted.

So......come play some of my games!:) I NEVER use easy start, Friendly Robber, just regular Catan. Mano a Mano, hand to hand combat. it's challenging! and how the game was meant to be played.

Ppeople outside of the arena still assuming that friendly robber should be followed. In a recent game, a guy get obsessed with me because I put him a robber in the second turn, getting angry with me (the third player ended up winning). I was also muted so I had no posibility to say nothing to him.