Is this allowed?

[nik592]

My question is whether it is even possible to catch such cheaters in the current moderation system using public evidence (e.g. playing patterns). Because if not, I won't bother with reporting if I notice such a scenario.

I would say it's indistinguishable (even from the moderator side) from 2 people who share a computer and are just trying to compete with each other for highest ELO.

Not even a computer, but just an internet connection. Admittedly, my partner and I do both play on the same PC, but separate mobile devices. But aside from that, BGA seems to record IP addresses played from and matches people up this way - even if I am joining via my mobile data, and my partner on our home Wifi (entirely different networks), it will still warn that two players play from the same IP. So it does warn other players in the same game, but that's obviously not the pattern h_iles is talking about (I don't think someone exploiting this would be playing against themselves in the same game - that's a different kind of cheating). I realise that's disappointing, but I think the alternative (preventing multiple people in a household from all enjoying BGA) would be worse.

[RicardoRix]

You can still play against each other in the same household. Just not in a competitive setting.

[nik592]

I didn't say you couldn't. But the issue here is that two separate people in the same household would appear the same way as one person utilising two accounts to boost their position in the way described here. To stop it, you'd have to disallow people from having multiple accounts from the same household, which would likely affect more legitimate players than it would be stopping cheaters.

And you can even play in a competitive setting if one of the accounts in question is premium, but it does warn other players that two people share an IP (in case that bothers you).

[Jellby]

Two people using the same network can play simultaneously. Two people using the same computer will not, which matches the pattern of someone with a ("benign") alt account better. But two people on the same computer will probably switch more frequently than someone using an alt account to climb and park.

[Ceaseless]

Honestly, of the many Things that have been listed out as BGA problems in the forums, someone having multiple of accounts to try to reach the top of an ELO in an arena game is at the bottom of my list for fixing. Even if there were 1000 games, we would only be talking about a possible thousand people. We have bad players that start more than 1000 games and walk away over and over again for years. They have disrupted tens of thousands of games. I would rather have an issue like that fixed than this one.

I’m sorry you’re being angered by what you think others are doing with multiple accounts. I hope you can find a way to think about it differently because it’s not gonna change. That’s not how BGA works.

And I can just as easily say that someone walking away from tournament games, which players can just avoid playing, is at the bottom of my list of things I care about fixing. I'm sorry you're being angered by someone abusing the tournament system because that's not going to change, that's not how BGA works. It would be no less valid than your statement. (Actually, it's likely more accurate, I've seen more signs BGA is going to end up doing something about alts than they will about this user. But that's not really the point.)

Empathy prevents me from using that argument above. Even if I won't personally be affected by a given problem I still care to see issues fixed, and I am also capable of viewing more than one thing as worth fixing, as well as BGA deciding to fix things outside of my order of priorities. So yes, even if I don't play tournaments someone abusing players by leaving in absurd numbers is something I think BGA should handle. Even if I don't currently play Arena if someone is trying to rig the numbers in their favor through alt accounts tricks that's also something I think should be accounted for if possible.

[Cile]

But two people on the same computer will probably switch more frequently than someone using an alt account to climb and park.

That "probably" is why this is impossible to do anything about it. There's no way to know it's not two different users, and it would take a lot of time to check the user logs for every report that comes in.

The user abusing the tournaments is obvious and easy to track even by other users and nothing is being done about it. If it is in any way nebulous no action will be taken.

[JoysJoy]

[
And I can just as easily say that someone walking away from tournament games, which players can just avoid playing, is at the bottom of my list of things I care about fixing.

How can people avoid playing tournament games more than they can avoid playing arena? Anybody can avoid playing any game anywhere.

I was not clear enough in my comment. This player does tournaments *and* individual games and does the same thing to both. The reason tournaments are worse is that they go on for many many months. Day after day after day and game after game after game, you have to keep putting up with having to boot somebody for acting like this and having it keep crossing your screen. The results mean nothing in the tournaments anymore. Aggravation and constant Reminder of a rotten human being, ruining things. Constant challenge to not be frustrated and angry that can ruin your day for months on end, and you cant quit the tournament once you start without harming your own karma. While an Arena game is a one time thing. Someone might run into a bad player once a month in the arena versus endlessly with tournaments.

it would be very easy for BGA to set up the system to simply boot someone out of the tournament when they don’t show up for a game. or give the tournament organizer the ability to boot anybody that does this instead of having to leave them as part of the tournament the whole time it goes on. As it works right now, the same person is put in the next round and gets to ruin game after game after game in the same tournament. That is why it is worse with the tournament. he might be gone for six months and every day of those six months, 180 days, he has ruined thousands of games and affected tens of thousands of people, versus ruining just one single game at a time in the arena.

I’m thinking you might not play tournaments to understand. Especially since you think it’s just something to avoid. So is the arena, if you’re going to say that.

And yes, I had now avoid tournaments. Despite paying my fair premium amount. I do not get a fair premium return because this is never addressed. Something I pay to access with my membership is not usable to me because rules are not being enforced.

Sometimes, I now create my own tournaments that I limit the invite to, but I never again play big tournaments because of this particular player and a small number like him. Probably many people quit playing tournaments because of this.

What is the point when one person can destroy an entire your system and the company does not care to do anything about it?

[h_illes]

I’m thinking you might not play tournaments to understand. Especially since you think it’s just something to avoid. So is the arena, if you’re going to say that.

And yes, I had now avoid tournaments. Despite paying my fair premium amount. I do not get a fair premium return because this is never addressed. Something I pay to access with my membership is not usable to me because rules are not being enforced.

Sometimes, I now create my own tournaments that I limit the invite to, but I never again play big tournaments because of this particular player and a small number like him. Probably many people quit playing tournaments because of this.

What is the point when one person can destroy an entire your system and the company does not care to do anything about it?

I understand and agree it is extremely frustrating. The point about empathy is that for others, some other type of malicious behaviour could be just as aggravating. And I also agree BGA should do way more about such issues that actually matter to a lot of players. Personally I have cancelled my premium subscription due to the indifference shown by BGA.

[Ceaseless]

[
And I can just as easily say that someone walking away from tournament games, which players can just avoid playing, is at the bottom of my list of things I care about fixing.

How can people avoid playing tournament games more than they can avoid playing arena? Anybody can avoid playing any game anywhere.

I was not clear enough in my comment. This player does tournaments *and* individual games and does the same thing to both. The reason tournaments are worse is that they go on for many many months. Day after day after day and game after game after game, you have to keep putting up with having to boot somebody for acting like this and having it keep crossing your screen. The results mean nothing in the tournaments anymore. Aggravation and constant Reminder of a rotten human being, ruining things. Constant challenge to not be frustrated and angry that can ruin your day for months on end, and you cant quit the tournament once you start without harming your own karma. While an Arena game is a one time thing. Someone might run into a bad player once a month in the arena versus endlessly with tournaments.

it would be very easy for BGA to set up the system to simply boot someone out of the tournament when they don’t show up for a game. or give the tournament organizer the ability to boot anybody that does this instead of having to leave them as part of the tournament the whole time it goes on. As it works right now, the same person is put in the next round and gets to ruin game after game after game in the same tournament. That is why it is worse with the tournament. he might be gone for six months and every day of those six months, 180 days, he has ruined thousands of games and affected tens of thousands of people, versus ruining just one single game at a time in the arena.

I’m thinking you might not play tournaments to understand. Especially since you think it’s just something to avoid. So is the arena, if you’re going to say that.

And yes, I had now avoid tournaments. Despite paying my fair premium amount. I do not get a fair premium return because this is never addressed. Something I pay to access with my membership is not usable to me because rules are not being enforced.

Sometimes, I now create my own tournaments that I limit the invite to, but I never again play big tournaments because of this particular player and a small number like him. Probably many people quit playing tournaments because of this.

What is the point when one person can destroy an entire your system and the company does not care to do anything about it?

The part of my quote that you cut out already covered my answer to that.

[ChiefPointThief]

And yes, I had now avoid tournaments. Despite paying my fair premium amount. I do not get a fair premium return because this is never addressed. Something I pay to access with my membership is not usable to me because rules are not being enforced.

Same. But some tournament formats are still safe like round robins. I also feel this way about fast tb games. If you create a fast 4p tb game their is a good chance someone will go into the red. Because of how games are handled here anyone who is losing then has the option to nullify results by just booting this person. I wish bga would add the option (which devs have already asked for) for the game to continue and the person who gets booted comes in last. I've seen ppl in the forums put the blame on us for joining these types of games but we shouldn't be forced to stop playing game modes because others don't want to follow the rules. Especially considering that there are fixes for some of these problems.

Sometimes, I now create my own tournaments that I limit the invite to, but I never again play big tournaments because of this particular player and a small number like him. Probably many people quit playing tournaments because of this.

Same! Way better experience.

You can still play against each other in the same household. Just not in a competitive setting.

Is this written anywhere? I am aware of an account who has a lifetime restriction. They were found guilty of using multi accts in arena several times but they claim they are innocent and were playing against their children. From what I was told the restriction didn't come from allegedly cheating but from challenging the moderation.

Couldn't anyone being accused of using multi accts use this defense? I am guessing that the only way bga can make judgments in these cases is by looking at the games and seeing if one account clearly let the other win? But I also thought it was bga policy that they do not rule on kingmaking.