In all seriousness, accusing someone of cheating because they won is very very bad etiquette. I've been accuse of cheating way back when playing games on yahoo and it's one of the worst things about the internet.
Dice are Wrecking the Fun of This Game
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Re: Dice Cheats are Wrecking the fun of this game
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Sjarmtrollet
- Posts: 86
- Joined: 02 July 2023, 00:45
Re: Dice Cheats are Wrecking the fun of this game
What is most likely?
That somehow someone managed to hack the server?
Or that you are suffering from a strong case of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias and a misunderstanding of what randomness means?
Re: Dice are Wrecking the Fun of This Game
Yawn. No, it's not someone cheating. It's just the luck of the dice.
In any game, there will be numbers that come up more or less than expected - sometimes significantly more. That's actually something to be expected with a well-designed RNG (or fair dice, if playing on a real board), in games with a relatively small number of dice throws like Catan. Games would have to be much longer than a typical Catan game before it becomes likely that the observed dice distribution conforms closely to the theoretical distribution of two summed d6. If you haven't studied mathematical statistics, a lot of the of the results you'd intuitively expect are actually wrong/unlikely.
Sometimes the player that benefits is me, sometimes the player that benefits is an opponent. I don't accuse my opponent of somehow taking advantage of alleged defects in the RNG when they benefit, because I know I didn't do anything of the sort when the dice favour me.
In any game, there will be numbers that come up more or less than expected - sometimes significantly more. That's actually something to be expected with a well-designed RNG (or fair dice, if playing on a real board), in games with a relatively small number of dice throws like Catan. Games would have to be much longer than a typical Catan game before it becomes likely that the observed dice distribution conforms closely to the theoretical distribution of two summed d6. If you haven't studied mathematical statistics, a lot of the of the results you'd intuitively expect are actually wrong/unlikely.
Sometimes the player that benefits is me, sometimes the player that benefits is an opponent. I don't accuse my opponent of somehow taking advantage of alleged defects in the RNG when they benefit, because I know I didn't do anything of the sort when the dice favour me.
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Williams-DR
- Posts: 1
- Joined: 28 November 2024, 11:59
Re: Dice are Wrecking the Fun of This Game
Personally I think that the algorithm that manages the random dice roll operates with an overall interest that does not correspond to the interest of the game as a game but of the game as a gaming platform whose purpose is to attract more and more players in order to make it a model of success.
So what could be easier for a team of savvy programmers than to analyze the data of each player in a match and to favor one excessively and to voluntarily disadvantage the most rational players.
The goal is to frustrate the losers who obviously compulsively ask for more and replay especially in arena mode where the example of a totally irrational game in the victories testifies to this way of instrumentalizing the players.
This is also why you can only play with 3 in arena mode, it makes the cheating program more effective.
There is something unhealthy in this way of manipulating players based on their frustrations just to create exponential traffic of players, it is vicious and it makes the game unpleasant.
I note that the support never gives answers to this type of apprehension concerning the roll of the dice and that many hide in a certain denial behind probability, statistics, sequences and other mathematical aspects. The reality is who benefits from the crime? To the platform, obviously .... while advocating a great universal altruism on the love of the game and sharing etc etc ;;;, blah blah blah .... BGA frankly you should be ashamed of yourself what you are doing is small and petty
So what could be easier for a team of savvy programmers than to analyze the data of each player in a match and to favor one excessively and to voluntarily disadvantage the most rational players.
The goal is to frustrate the losers who obviously compulsively ask for more and replay especially in arena mode where the example of a totally irrational game in the victories testifies to this way of instrumentalizing the players.
This is also why you can only play with 3 in arena mode, it makes the cheating program more effective.
There is something unhealthy in this way of manipulating players based on their frustrations just to create exponential traffic of players, it is vicious and it makes the game unpleasant.
I note that the support never gives answers to this type of apprehension concerning the roll of the dice and that many hide in a certain denial behind probability, statistics, sequences and other mathematical aspects. The reality is who benefits from the crime? To the platform, obviously .... while advocating a great universal altruism on the love of the game and sharing etc etc ;;;, blah blah blah .... BGA frankly you should be ashamed of yourself what you are doing is small and petty
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Slartibartfst
- Posts: 96
- Joined: 24 January 2021, 07:47
Re: Dice are Wrecking the Fun of This Game
They have an alogritm for determining the most "rational" players lol? So, you understand that pretty much all the games on here are programed and updated by users, right? Not Big Bad BGA. So in your theory, after useres program a game, BGA goes in and secretly rewrites the code, but doesn't show that rewrite to the person that updates the game, so each time they update the game, BGA goes back and secretly changes it, all in an effort to frustrate losers so they play more? Does all of that really make sense to you?Williams-DR wrote: ↑14 December 2024, 01:16 Personally I think that the algorithm that manages the random dice roll operates with an overall interest that does not correspond to the interest of the game as a game but of the game as a gaming platform whose purpose is to attract more and more players in order to make it a model of success.
So what could be easier for a team of savvy programmers than to analyze the data of each player in a match and to favor one excessively and to voluntarily disadvantage the most rational players.
The goal is to frustrate the losers who obviously compulsively ask for more and replay especially in arena mode where the example of a totally irrational game in the victories testifies to this way of instrumentalizing the players.
This is also why you can only play with 3 in arena mode, it makes the cheating program more effective.
There is something unhealthy in this way of manipulating players based on their frustrations just to create exponential traffic of players, it is vicious and it makes the game unpleasant.
I note that the support never gives answers to this type of apprehension concerning the roll of the dice and that many hide in a certain denial behind probability, statistics, sequences and other mathematical aspects. The reality is who benefits from the crime? To the platform, obviously .... while advocating a great universal altruism on the love of the game and sharing etc etc ;;;, blah blah blah .... BGA frankly you should be ashamed of yourself what you are doing is small and petty
Re: Dice are Wrecking the Fun of This Game
Right. That proves humans can believe anything, and they're likely to create ludicrous stories to "explain" whatever.Williams-DR wrote: ↑14 December 2024, 01:16 Personally I think that the algorithm that manages the random dice roll operates with an overall interest that does not correspond to the interest of the game as a game but of the game as a gaming platform whose purpose is to attract more and more players in order to make it a model of success.
Hmm... What could be easier? How about not doing it and simply using a random number generator.?So what could be easier for a team of savvy programmers than to analyze the data of each player in a match and to favor one excessively and to voluntarily disadvantage the most rational players.
This looks suspiciously similar to how casinos, betting and lotteries work...The goal is to frustrate the losers who obviously compulsively ask for more and replay especially in arena mode where the example of a totally irrational game in the victories testifies to this way of instrumentalizing the players.
Re: Dice are Wrecking the Fun of This Game
The support don't want to lose time explaining things to people which can't be convinced. The less you talk about it, the less people should complain. To a certain extend.
While people like us 'like?' to lose time to explain things to convinced people.
Oh and so the system advantage people who aren't rational. Thanks, that's another theory I can add to my list
We can be convinced by stats or maths, we don't think blindly that the system isn't rigged. But just give something we can check and repeatable like 'people who name start with R will roll more 6s than average'. And then we can check games, and see if that's the case or not.
The problem, like for flat earth theory, is that people can't agree between themselves (like your theory is the first time i read it, which would be extremely weird if it was true), and can't give something checkable.
While people like us 'like?' to lose time to explain things to convinced people.
Oh and so the system advantage people who aren't rational. Thanks, that's another theory I can add to my list
We can be convinced by stats or maths, we don't think blindly that the system isn't rigged. But just give something we can check and repeatable like 'people who name start with R will roll more 6s than average'. And then we can check games, and see if that's the case or not.
The problem, like for flat earth theory, is that people can't agree between themselves (like your theory is the first time i read it, which would be extremely weird if it was true), and can't give something checkable.
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YoYoAdrian
- Posts: 4
- Joined: 31 July 2024, 21:12
Re: Dice are Wrecking the Fun of This Game
Look at this game and tell me that this was real. I played white and based on the resources there was no chance was gonna loose this esspecially to the blue guy. But look at this rolls. And the ranking ....and the winning procentage and tell me that something fishy is not going on.
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=603245299
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=603245299
Re: Dice are Wrecking the Fun of This Game
Nothing specific again. So let's take all the rolls:
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
0 2 3 7 6 7 10 8 2 3 1
What is weird about that? You seem to have a really good curve. No number was too much or too few rolled.
There is another thing. If you take one game, and search for something weird, you will find it. If you make a prediction on your next game, and try to be right, you will not be right. That's because there is a lot of factors you can take to tell it's rigged: one number is too much rolled, too few rolled, for everyone, for one person, someone rolled too much doubles, one number was rolled too much in a row, the starting numbers of one player was too much rolled, too few rolled. And that's the general stuff that would give you credit for. If now you goes deeper, you can said: two numbers were too much rolled (so here we got 55 duos of numbers possible), i lost too much in a row, win too much in a row, never got wood the whole game, the tokens were placed in a weird place, something changed in the dices rolled after my first town was played, after X, odds numbers were too few rolled, and so on.
The point is, first for the general stuff, counting only what I said, there is 86 things you can check. So between those 86, even if each thing is not weird 99.2% of the time, then that would mean that one specific thing would be 50% weird. (0.992^86).
If now you add the extra, you can easily find 1000+ things, and I could talk about 99.93%, but those low numbers aren't great since it's hard to evaluate too big or too low numbers.
One factor will be weird, while all others would not.
Again, I ask you to make a prediction. Said something specific on the forum now. Then in your next 10 or 100 games, try to see if your prediction is right or wrong.
If you keep saying 'check that game something is wrong', I would agree since there is so many things possible who can be wrong. But if you make a prediction, you reduce those weird things to one. You can even make multiple predictions (up to around 5).
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
0 2 3 7 6 7 10 8 2 3 1
What is weird about that? You seem to have a really good curve. No number was too much or too few rolled.
There is another thing. If you take one game, and search for something weird, you will find it. If you make a prediction on your next game, and try to be right, you will not be right. That's because there is a lot of factors you can take to tell it's rigged: one number is too much rolled, too few rolled, for everyone, for one person, someone rolled too much doubles, one number was rolled too much in a row, the starting numbers of one player was too much rolled, too few rolled. And that's the general stuff that would give you credit for. If now you goes deeper, you can said: two numbers were too much rolled (so here we got 55 duos of numbers possible), i lost too much in a row, win too much in a row, never got wood the whole game, the tokens were placed in a weird place, something changed in the dices rolled after my first town was played, after X, odds numbers were too few rolled, and so on.
The point is, first for the general stuff, counting only what I said, there is 86 things you can check. So between those 86, even if each thing is not weird 99.2% of the time, then that would mean that one specific thing would be 50% weird. (0.992^86).
If now you add the extra, you can easily find 1000+ things, and I could talk about 99.93%, but those low numbers aren't great since it's hard to evaluate too big or too low numbers.
One factor will be weird, while all others would not.
Again, I ask you to make a prediction. Said something specific on the forum now. Then in your next 10 or 100 games, try to see if your prediction is right or wrong.
If you keep saying 'check that game something is wrong', I would agree since there is so many things possible who can be wrong. But if you make a prediction, you reduce those weird things to one. You can even make multiple predictions (up to around 5).
Re: Dice are Wrecking the Fun of This Game
It's your claim and it's up to you to PROVE that there is something which is so unlikely to be suspicious.YoYoAdrian wrote: ↑18 December 2024, 09:13 Look at this game and tell me that this was real. I played white and based on the resources there was no chance was gonna loose this esspecially to the blue guy. But look at this rolls. And the ranking ....and the winning procentage and tell me that something fishy is not going on.
https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=603245299
PROVE means to establish some meaningul observable, compute it's likelyhood and check that your game has a probability so small to be
suspicious.
If you have a game which you can win only if you get six times in a row the number 5 from a dice, this is unlikely to happen but not impossible and
given the amount of games played on bga it should happen a VERY LARGE number of times...