U.E.S. Armstrong 6927-D

[NinePointOh]

I personally am opposed to removing cards, period. The base game is very carefully balanced by offsetting the different odds of rolling each number with appropriately scaled rewards. By removing one of the best cards for the 12 sector you're not just eliminating that card -- you're drastically de-valuing the 12 sector, the entire higher-sector strategy, and all of the cards that make a winning combo with it (including swap sectors, place a cube, red and green arrows, etc).

There needs to be enough very powerful rewards for the 12 sector, or else nobody would -- or should -- ever buy a card there. The space becomes sub-optimal and everyone's strategies become more and more same-y.

In a game with this many different cards not everyone is going to subjectively enjoy every card, but I'm not really hearing an argument that it's broken. Please don't create lots of new problems with the rest of the game just for subjective preferences.

[Solarman9]

I like that you guys assume that I lose to this card over and over again, I hardly ever lose to this card, I win with this card a lot. But it's a cheap, unsatisfying win. Also, I assume that most people hate this card because every time I'm in a game where it's used everyone talks about how much they don't like it.

I don't think they assumed you lost with it, maybe that was your interpretation of their comments. The new season in arena went back to 3 people and with less rolls by opponents and it taking an extra charge, going to see less of it winning.

[Rikhavok]

I too would like the 12 you win card as an option to be removed. Almost everyone I know that owns this game removes it and the 7 opponents lose 4 vp.

I think these 2 cards are out of the spirit of how the game is to be played. I love most of John De Clair’s games and have played with him several times in the real world as he goes to the same conventions that I do. He’s a great guy! But he loves to put these kinds of alternate win options in his games. i feel they can unbalance the game. I don’t think they are necessary. and…. I start a game that says that this card is removed, and you don’t want to play with it removed, you can play a different session or start your own. I feel that there are enough people that don’t like these two cards in the game that it should be an option to not have it.

Why should this really be a debate? if I don’t want to play with it? Why should that be a problem for anyone?

[Meeplelowda]

Why should this really be a debate? if I don’t want to play with it? Why should that be a problem for anyone?

If you go and buy a physical copy of the game, you can obviously do whatever you want with it. But BGA implements the rules as written and any deviations (house rules) have to be approved by the rights holder for the game.

[Rikhavok]

A house rule means optional .. . let it be our option. As of today, I will not play Space Base on BGA until they add this option. In fact, I'm going to reach out to my contacts and see if they can do anything.

[Meeplelowda]

A house rule means optional .. . let it be our option.

It's your option if you own the game.

As of today, I will not play Space Base on BGA until they add this option.

Fair enough. That's your right. Have a nice life.

In fact, I'm going to reach out to my contacts and see if they can do anything.

Well, that's exactly what is supposed to happen, so have at it.

[Cappa]

I like that you guys assume that I lose to this card over and over again, I hardly ever lose to this card, I win with this card a lot. But it's a cheap, unsatisfying win. Also, I assume that most people hate this card because every time I'm in a game where it's used everyone talks about how much they don't like it.

No one assumed anything, based off experiences over 500+ games in arena, the win rate with this card is very very low.

[MasN]

The base game is very carefully balanced (regarding sectors)

I've noticed it's very common for fans to state that the game is perfectly balanced, and making any house rule would throw off balance.

No it's not. Any Elite League player will tell you that the 12 sector is the worst sector in the game, by far, it's not even close.

So don't claim that this change would throw off sector balance - the sectors weren't even balanced to begin with.

Besides, the "You Win." card isn't even an enabler for the 12 sector strategy, that honor goes to the 11 arrow. (And the 11 arrow is not that contested a card, which should speak volumes about how weak the 12 sector strategy to begin with.)

The "You Win." card doesn't even fit a 12 sector strategy. A 12 sector strategy wants to stack the 12 sector, so it uses arrows so that it can activate them all. On the other hand, while arrows can be used with the "You win." card, you only card about hitting a single card rather than the whole stack. As a result, it's much more efficient to use the hypergate or a charge placer.

[MasN]

Besides, even if the other sector 12 cards were weak and only the "I win" card were keeping it viable,

The better solution to incentivize people to play in the 12 sector would be to actually balance the cards. Consider the tier 3 VP card. On sector 7, it is worth 6 VP. On sector 12, it is six times less likely to hit, and worth 9 VP.
If you want people to buy the 12, you need to make the reward commensurate with the risk.

Now you might say, but MasN, you can't make it worth 36 VP! That would be broken! The 12 sector has synergy with arrows, with a single bump tripling the chance to hit it. Furthermore, if it were worth 36 VP, then someone would quickly take a free win with the hypergate.

Sure. That reasoning would be correct, 36 VP would be broken for those reasons. But 9? Really? There has gotta be a happy medium between these numbers.

[mrdelivery]

I think OP understands that the card isn't auto-win and that it adds a dimension to the game that has to be accounted for. I think they're just interested in having the option to remove it, as has clearly been made available for another card.

I personally like what the card brings to a game, but think it's a unique enough card that people who want to play with it excluded should be able to. I wouldn't endorse its exclusion in ranked play, but surely someone with some juice can make this an option for players?