Multiple accounts for arena

Discussions about BGA (all languages)
Forum rules
Warning: challenging a moderation in Forum = 10 days ban
More info & details about how to challenge a moderation: viewtopic.php?p=119756
User avatar
Meeplelowda
Posts: 3842
Joined: 14 March 2020, 10:31

Re: Multiple accounts for arena

Post by Meeplelowda »

nik592 wrote: 13 January 2025, 01:58
Terry Yam wrote: 12 January 2025, 22:04 If you want to discuss sportsmanship, one point on bad sportsmanship on the multiple account players' side is that, they gain advantage unfairly by knowing their opponents while the opponents don't have any knowledge on who are behind those shadow accounts.
Much like Cile, I'm surprised if anyone pays attention to their opponents to that degree, but perhaps you are one of those. BGA's Arena season is rankings on a website - there's no prizes, even very little prestige (in my opinion). It's a very different thing to the world of competitive chess (which again, I don't claim to know a lot about, but there appears to be governance, prize money, the things you see in other competitive recreation/sport). I mean, if it means that much to you, you're free to see it that way, but I'm not sure you can expect other players and/or BGA to run it that way.
I'm not at all surprised. The fact that people go out of their way to cheat on BGA (not referring specifically to the topic of this thread, just in general) without money or physical rewards at stake demonstrates that it isn't a necessary condition for taking something seriously. ("too seriously" would be a value judgment) I think there is a subculture on BGA for every game of people who take it seriously and have dissected it. I'm not just talking about abstract strategy games. People take "Spot It" seriously for Pete's sake.

I imagine the higher level you get in a game, the more the meta matters, and so knowing your opponent's tendencies matters. If I'm playing e4 against Anna Cramling, I'm definitely brushing up on the Sicilian.
Play Now lobby 4ever! https://boardgamearena.com/lobby
User avatar
Terry Yam
Posts: 9
Joined: 30 August 2012, 05:04

Re: Multiple accounts for arena

Post by Terry Yam »

nik592 wrote: 13 January 2025, 01:58 Yes, the other thread described a person using multiple accounts at the same time. The situation you are describing is using a single account at a time. I'm not sure you can interpret the quote from xate as meaning that a player cannot discontinue use of one account and switch to another. So long as they are not using multiple accounts for competitive play at the same time, I'm pretty sure they're within BGA rules. For example, if a person was experiencing harassment from other players and wanted to move to a new account to avoid this, I don't think anyone would argue that they shouldn't. Yes, they can (and probably should) report the harassment, but shifting to a new account is likely faster and may be more effective anyway.
When the time I started this thread, I was not sure and thinking it might be possible in the this way as well, also was too focused on arena mode but forgot about the main elo ladder which is a much greater issue. But after reading the quoted case and thinking of the impact to all time elo ranking, I now believe that it is not allowed and I interpret xate's message that when '1 player - 1 account' really comes to execution, it can be very strict. From the case, the guy jumped out and tried to argue, but ended up unintentionally confess to the fact that he wanted to dominate the elo ladder of 7 wonder duel, and the rule should not be limited by trying to define what is 'at the same time' as he could further argue that he only played with 1 account each month, week, day or even hour, and eventually he could have achieved what he was trying to if the matter was not brought up. Another way to dishonestly manipulate the elo ladder is trying to bring down the top player heavily with low elo shadow account, instead of playing against with main account fair and square, which was not discussed in the case and is not going to be discussed here.

Using a real life case as an example, assume that I have 2 cars, I drive each of them on alternative week or just leave 1 in my garage for unknown period. In any instance, I still possess 2 cars even I'm not using 1 of them, as both cars are under my name and I can do whatever I want to my cars. Same here, a person creates multiple accounts and as far as he does not close all but one accounts, then all accounts should be considered active and should not have record of competitive game play in more then one accounts. More obviously if a player is participating in the current arena and preparing another account for the next season, he clearly violates the rule. Surely the account for the current arena is engaging in competitive play, and also the 2nd account is getting elo and quota for more turn based games at one time through competitive play.

When speaking of being serious about knowing my opponents, I can only say it is really a matter when you are trying to hit the top in some games. I don't mean anyone should be hostile to top players or avoiding them, instead I compliment them after 1 or 2 games with them and learn from the loss. That has been supposed to be simple, fair and square until someone is hiding his identity and making his best moves while I cannot.
User avatar
nik592
Posts: 1390
Joined: 16 October 2022, 13:54

Re: Multiple accounts for arena

Post by nik592 »

Terry Yam wrote: 13 January 2025, 05:59 Same here, a person creates multiple accounts and as far as he does not close all but one accounts, then all accounts should be considered active and should not have record of competitive game play in more then one accounts. More obviously if a player is participating in the current arena and preparing another account for the next season, he clearly violates the rule. Surely the account for the current arena is engaging in competitive play, and also the 2nd account is getting elo and quota for more turn based games at one time through competitive play.
I thought they were closing (or at least discontinuing use of) their secondary accounts. If they're switching back and forth between them, that's not one account at a time. To the point that they may not want to close their original account for whatever reason (to use my harassment example, if I was trying to avoid someone, I wouldn't close my account, I'd leave it open and dormant, so it might take them a while to look for a new one - closing immediately may suggest you've switched to a new one), but so long as they're not using it, to the point that if BGA discovered it as a multiple and closed it, they wouldn't care. As far as I know, the punishment for having multiple accounts includes having all accounts closed except one (along with some other penalties I think), along the lines of keeping open the one you've played most/played most recently with.

They also can't dominate the main ELO rankings unless they're playing on their multiple accounts somewhat simultaneously - after I think 30 days of no play, you drop off the rankings (your ranking is maintained, but you just don't show up on the leaderboard anymore).
User avatar
Terry Yam
Posts: 9
Joined: 30 August 2012, 05:04

Re: Multiple accounts for arena

Post by Terry Yam »

nik592 wrote: 13 January 2025, 10:58 They also can't dominate the main ELO rankings unless they're playing on their multiple accounts somewhat simultaneously - after I think 30 days of no play, you drop off the rankings (your ranking is maintained, but you just don't show up on the leaderboard anymore).
Sadly it is not working like you expect.

I'm not going to point out exactly which game and which account, avoiding to make it a bigger fight or without decisive evidence end up leading to an accusation to someone. You may notice this as a common phenomenon in many board games here anyway. A 1st player in a particular board game with over 800 elo is not actively playing. His 2nd last game was in Nov 2023, and his last game 50 something days ago newbie bashing as expected. Guess what? Not a single elo point has been deducted, and he has been showing at the top all time. Even if a shorter time for elo fading is implemented, he just needs to come back to do newbie bashing more often to maintain at the top.

That's why I believe owning more than one accounts on competitive play is not allowed, because apart from dominating the ladder, playing on another account while participating minimally with the main account is an act to evade loss to be honestly reflected on the main account and prohibit other players from trying to achieve higher unfairly, while he can still enjoy the game and possibly, take down other competitive players to further secure his 'glorious' top status without any risk of losing it.
User avatar
nik592
Posts: 1390
Joined: 16 October 2022, 13:54

Re: Multiple accounts for arena

Post by nik592 »

Terry Yam wrote: 13 January 2025, 17:07 I'm not going to point out exactly which game and which account, avoiding to make it a bigger fight or without decisive evidence end up leading to an accusation to someone. You may notice this as a common phenomenon in many board games here anyway. A 1st player in a particular board game with over 800 elo is not actively playing. His 2nd last game was in Nov 2023, and his last game 50 something days ago newbie bashing as expected. Guess what? Not a single elo point has been deducted, and he has been showing at the top all time. Even if a shorter time for elo fading is implemented, he just needs to come back to do newbie bashing more often to maintain at the top.
ELO decay doesn't happen as far as I know, there was talk of it, but I don't think it was implemented. I personally haven't experienced the falling off the leaderboard (I don't get on leaderboards, neither does that concern me) after long periods without playing (which I also don't do), but it looks like it's 60 days without play, not 30, so if that's not working, it's possibly a bug? That said, I'm no one official, just going on the hearsay of others. So maybe it's not a thing? I'm not invested enough to dig much more than that.

And I agreed with you, that if it's not a case of starting a new account each arena season and moving on from the old, that's clearly NOT within BGA rules. Your initial post made it sound like your scenario involved a person creating a new account each season and not returning to the old ones. Although, now perhaps you're talking about someone using two accounts to park one at the top of the rankings and play with another? Which I know happens, and shouldn't, but is quite different from your initial post.
User avatar
Terry Yam
Posts: 9
Joined: 30 August 2012, 05:04

Re: Multiple accounts for arena

Post by Terry Yam »

nik592 wrote: 13 January 2025, 17:20 And I agreed with you, that if it's not a case of starting a new account each arena season and moving on from the old, that's clearly NOT within BGA rules. Your initial post made it sound like your scenario involved a person creating a new account each season and not returning to the old ones. Although, now perhaps you're talking about someone using two accounts to park one at the top of the rankings and play with another? Which I know happens, and shouldn't, but is quite different from your initial post.
Yeah, that's what I figure out during the discussion that I was too narrowly focusing on arena mode at the beginning.

Or put it in another way, if a top player didn't want to risk his 1st place on elo ladder but wanted to play in arena mode, creating another account for that and passively maintaining the main account is violating the rule. The only option is that he participates with his main account.
JohnnyCyclops
Posts: 282
Joined: 05 July 2023, 22:06

Re: Multiple accounts for arena

Post by JohnnyCyclops »

Terry Yam wrote: 13 January 2025, 17:49 Or put it in another way, if a top player didn't want to risk his 1st place on elo ladder but wanted to play in arena mode, creating another account for that and passively maintaining the main account is violating the rule. The only option is that he participates with his main account.
I could see that as a reason for someone to have a second account. They climbed the ELO mountain and reached the summit, possibly by skill, possibly a lucky run of games too. And don’t want to jeopardise that but still wish to play a game they enjoy, and so create a second account. The high-ELO account receives a maintenance game once in a while.

Not condoning but I can see why someone might just for bragging rights about “best ELO”.
User avatar
Lady_Jane
Posts: 48
Joined: 05 January 2024, 04:59

Re: Multiple accounts for arena

Post by Lady_Jane »

this thread has considered so many scenario's now, with OP even changing their mind on what was happening... In my experience when you put this much thought and energy into something, seeing evidence of it is inevitable. (similar to you buy a blue car, and suddenly see blue cars everywhere you turn).
User avatar
Meeplelowda
Posts: 3842
Joined: 14 March 2020, 10:31

Re: Multiple accounts for arena

Post by Meeplelowda »

Lady_Jane wrote: 22 January 2025, 22:22 this thread has considered so many scenario's now, with OP even changing their mind on what was happening... In my experience when you put this much thought and energy into something, seeing evidence of it is inevitable. (similar to you buy a blue car, and suddenly see blue cars everywhere you turn).
We can't know for sure what is going on in the situation described in the original post. But you seem to think this is some kind of hypothetical situation. People have been caught and banned for ELO boosting with alt accounts, so much so that to (try to) stop it BGA implemented a system to minimize ELO gained from consecutive wins against the same opponent, leading to this thread with almost 1,000 replies and over 2.5 million views.
Play Now lobby 4ever! https://boardgamearena.com/lobby
User avatar
Terry Yam
Posts: 9
Joined: 30 August 2012, 05:04

Re: Multiple accounts for arena

Post by Terry Yam »

Lady_Jane wrote: 22 January 2025, 22:22 this thread has considered so many scenario's now, with OP even changing their mind on what was happening... In my experience when you put this much thought and energy into something, seeing evidence of it is inevitable. (similar to you buy a blue car, and suddenly see blue cars everywhere you turn).
As I notice in the arena mode of a particular board game, there have been new accounts showing up one after one without overlapping, and very likely it's is the same person behind which I can tell from many details, like always paid to be a member once created, created just for a single game, created around 2 month before an arena season, got 50+ turn based games at the same time, knew to use time joker to get extra time, played with the same strategy or style, etc.

Originally I was wondering if there was any official rule on multiple accounts on arena, and during discussion in this thread I realized the issue was more than just about arena. It may be by someone who reaches the top of the elo ladder and doesn't want to risk losing elo in arena mode, and if it is true, it is extremely unfair and discouraging to other players. It's not just happening in the game I am referring at, but also many other games in this site, with a little bit difference in operation style by different person, with or without involving arena mode.

Thanks again Meeplelowda for confirming that multiple accounts on competitive play is not allowed. However, if the site just doesn't stop suspicious multiple account creation and logging in from a same IP address, as a normal player there is no way for me to obtain decisive evidence to point out the possible person behind of this creating unfairness. At the same time, I won't run the risk of being judged as abusing the report system and got punished instead by BGA in reporting those suspicious accounts under the current situation. Things I can do myself are to block those accounts as well as many upcoming in the future, and seriously consider not to be a member to support this site any more because the site fails to maintain a fair and positive environment for competitive play.
Post Reply

Return to “Discussions”