Why do we remove so many cards?

[Cos-]

I'm curious to know the rationale behind the rule that says you have to remove a lot of cards for 2 and 3 player games. Is it just to ensure the game played in person doesn't last too long? When we play in person with actual cards, we don't remove any cards, and it seems like that works perfectly well. I'd enjoy the option to do that here on BGA as well, but I wonder what I might be missing, some reason why it may be better to play with a large number of cards removed.

[reikja]

Precisely. The game experience should be the same for all players, regardless of the number of players. Downsizing the deck helps to keep the 2player battles at a crunchy pace, while having all cards on deck in a full 5player game, this gives a different experience in the same time span.

Implementations on Boardgamearena.com are based on the official rules, as developments are always made in consultation with the publisher.
With Lookout Games, this will stay that way.

We do appreciate to learn about how you apply house rules IRL

[Rutabaga00]

It also helps in reducing the odds of finding an optimal strategy, and it offers variety between games.
We dont know which cards are going to be there and which ones are going to sit quietly in the box.

Cant always hope to find wolves, tree ferns and so on.
You have to consider after a while that those cards may be out of the game this time.

[Cos-]

It also helps in reducing the odds of finding an optimal strategy, and it offers variety between games.
We dont know which cards are going to be there and which ones are going to sit quietly in the box.

Cant always hope to find wolves, tree ferns and so on.
You have to consider after a while that those cards may be out of the game this time.

Regardless of how many cards you leave in the deck, up to 1/3 of them may be beyond the last winter. In some games you get through the whole deck but that's rare; in most games, there will be a good bunch of cards past the last winter card. The larger the deck, to more cards are there.

In other words, whether you remove cards from the deck or not, some random set of cards will be gone and inaccessible from the game, which means you can't count on anything in particular being there. So I don't think this point holds.

[petulance]

Implementations on Boardgamearena.com are based on the official rules, as developments are always made in consultation with the publisher.

Curious, in the official rules you remove 30 cards (so play with 150) in 2 player but in BGA 2 player starts with 130 cards, meaning 50 were removed. Why is this?

[reikja]

Shuffling the cards for set up takes some maths:

a) In 2 player game for Forest Shuffle, NO expansion involved:

We do have a starting with a deck of 119 cards (which were originally 131, -6 cards dealt to each of the 2 players)


b) In a 2 player game with (one) expansion, we start with a deck of 130 cards. We added 36 cards of the expansion deck,
hence remove 55 cards in total from the complete deck after shuffling.


To be clear :

2 player base game: 161 basic cards (+0 expansion cards) (-30 cards from the deck) (-12 cards dealt to players) = Starting deck of 119 cards

2 player +Alpine expansion: 161 basic cards (+ 36 Alpine cards) (-55 cards from the deck) (-12 cards dealt to players) = starting deck of 130 cards


Winter cards are part of the deck; caves and the reference cards are not.

[Cos-]

Implementations on Boardgamearena.com are based on the official rules, as developments are always made in consultation with the publisher.

Curious, in the official rules you remove 30 cards (so play with 150) in 2 player but in BGA 2 player starts with 130 cards, meaning 50 were removed. Why is this?

2 player +Alpine expansion: 161 basic cards (+ 36 Alpine cards) (-55 cards from the deck) (-12 cards dealt to players) = starting deck of 130 cards

It sounds like the discrepancy is that while the rules say to remove 30 cards in a 2 player game, but you're removing 55 when the Alpine expansion is added. It turns out the Alpine expansion itself has a modified rule for how many cards to remove based on number of players - something I think hardly anyone playing the game either on BGA or in person would ever notice, because people don't expect the rules to change in this sort of game. But I just looked again at the Alpine expansion rules and they say to remove 45 cards for 2 players, not 55.

I still think no cards at all should be removed, and very much prefer to always play with the full deck. I see from this post that my guess was right, that you did choose card removal just to make the game shorter; I don't get that at all, that should be an *optional* rule for "if you want a shorter game ...".

However, I'm also curious about this discrepancy in the number of cards being removed on BGA when playing with the expansion.

[Meeplelowda]

But I just looked again at the Alpine expansion rules and they say to remove 45 cards for 2 players, not 55.

Look more closely. Here is the entire paragraph:

Shuffle the base game and expansion cards together and return
10 cards to the game box unseen. Then, based on the player
count, remove additional cards unseen:
with 2 players 45 cards
with 3 players 30 cards
with 4 players 15 cards
with 5 players none

A total of 55 are removed. First 10, then an ADDITIONAL 45. They even put it in bold to emphasize it.

[Retired Actuary]

To be clear :

2 player base game: 161 basic cards (+0 expansion cards) (-30 cards from the deck) (-12 cards dealt to players) = Starting deck of 119 cards

2 player +Alpine expansion: 161 basic cards (+ 36 Alpine cards) (-55 cards from the deck) (-12 cards dealt to players) = starting deck of 130 cards

Winter cards are part of the deck; caves and the reference cards are not.

This reminds me of something I've been trying to puzzle out on BGA. Put aside the winter cards for a minute; for both expansions, two player, we start with:

158 base cards (again, 161 ex-winter) + 36 Alpine + 36 Woodland - 10 - 80 (see below for the 10 and 80) -12 dealt = 128.

That's not divisible by 3, so let's put 42 in each stack, and then put the extra 2 in the bottom stack, bringing it to 44. We then tuck two winter cards into it, making 46, then put the 3rd winter card on top for 47.

The first winter card in BGA, both expansions, no draft, is 48, not 47. How do they get to 48?

There are lots of assumptions in all that, and many possible misapprehensions and miscalculations, but if you can spot the error it would be much appreciated.

https://boardgamegeek.com/image/8822411