How to report a player that is using ai?

[Jellby]

but if you're selecting the best of your cards [...] you should win. Easily.

Note that "using AI" does not mean "choosing the best possible moves". Actually, the OP probably doesn't even mean AI, just some kind of automated software. Not all bots or game engines are "AI", and any of them can be very dumb and perform poorly against humans.

[Mathew5000]

I've tried to find anything in BGA rules regarding using external tools and I haven't found anything.

BGA General Terms of Use Section "VIII. Fair Play": "BGA will not tolerate any cheating and/or lack of fair play, whether through the use of cheating software, analysis of communication protocols or code, use of multiple Accounts, collusion with other Users, leaving the game before its normal end, use of game blocking tactics in order to force other Users to quit, or the use of obscene or foul language, etc." [italics mine]

It would be nice if they defined the term "cheating software", but if you look at the BGA forums for specific games like Connect Four or Letter Tycoon it seems that players consider any software that provides external assistance in choosing game moves to be cheating. In my view it's obviously cheating and therefore a violation of the BGA terms of use as quoted above.

That being said, it's frequently impossible to prove with certainty that a player is cheating in this way, by using external assistance. So realistically, how do we expect BGA to investigate such an allegation, and what action would we expect BGA to take on finding that a player might be using cheating software?

Cross-references:

viewtopic.php?t=25664
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=67476
viewtopic.php?p=90355#p90355 (in this thread from 2021, Sourisdudesert says using an engine is "obviously forbidden")

[Raine7]

To be honest in my case I didn't think It was AI. My first impression is that It was some kind of bot, or someone playing with the help of a bot. Every turn he picked the cards instantly. And I mean instantly. A human can't do that.

Also his gameplay was odd. Placing cities in not very good spots, for example. So maybe someone training an AI? I don't know.

This happened some time ago, so It is not related with my recent lag issues. That game was very smooth, why should I have lag only and always with the card drawing phase? And even if that is true, how he never doubt for a second with the cards? I've played a lot and I know all the cards, but sometimes I need to evaluate if It is worthy to buy a card or not.

For me It was very strange and It has never happened ever again.

[nik592]

Note that "using AI" does not mean "choosing the best possible moves". Actually, the OP probably doesn't even mean AI, just some kind of automated software. Not all bots or game engines are "AI", and any of them can be very dumb and perform poorly against humans.

Well, I think most computer players are defined as an AI, even if it's a very rudimentary one. I know I've played against computer opponents that have obviously been terribly programmed, so yes, I understand that not all of them are difficult to beat. But in a setting like this, if you're not trying to win consistently, what point is there in using a bot or AI?

That said, I was more disagreeing with the point that even if you're choosing the best cards/moves, you wouldn't generally win because of the luck level in TM. Luck is pretty low in TM - most of the cards are good and most good players can pivot to play well with the cards they get. Yes, if you go all in on a particular strategy early and try to play it even if the cards you're dealt don't support it, that's not going to go well - but that's true of many games.

To be honest in my case I didn't think It was AI. My first impression is that It was some kind of bot, or someone playing with the help of a bot. Every turn he picked the cards instantly. And I mean instantly. A human can't do that.

Also his gameplay was odd. Placing cities in not very good spots, for example. So maybe someone training an AI? I don't know.

In that case, why couldn't it have been someone who (for whatever reason), decided they didn't care about the outcome of their game and just selected whatever, placed wherever, etc. I've also seen this before - and I typically red thumb them, because if you don't want to play, then don't play (if you accidentally put yourself in a game, then just play it out), or if you have a genuine reason (even if you perhaps don't know the game), ask for an abandon, and don't waste my time.

If you read this behaviour as using/training an AI/bot, I'd probably be red thumbing in that case too. And then forgetting about it.

[Raine7]

In that case, why couldn't it have been someone who (for whatever reason), decided they didn't care about the outcome of their game and just selected whatever, placed wherever, etc. I've also seen this before - and I typically red thumb them, because if you don't want to play, then don't play (if you accidentally put yourself in a game, then just play it out), or if you have a genuine reason (even if you perhaps don't know the game), ask for an abandon, and don't waste my time.

If you read this behaviour as using/training an AI/bot, I'd probably be red thumbing in that case too. And then forgetting about it.

I really understand you, and of course I red thumbed him. Now, please, try to understand me: insta picking the cards is not humanly possible without some kind of external help. I don't know if that was AI, a bot, or whatever, and to tell the truth I don't care. I was just sharing my experienced with a very suspicious behaviour during a game.

[Cos-]

I'm actually curious to know why we care about the possibility that someone may be using a computer program to help them choose moves?

As long as their program has no access to any information that isn't visible to all other players, then if their program is very good it'll give them a high ELO, and they're effectively an expert player that others can play the game with. Some of us like to play against experts, some of us don't, but fortunately BGA gives us the option to not play against experts - we can create our own table, or check the ranks of other people before we join a table. And BGA also lets you choose not to play against a specific person for any reason - maybe you just don't like their play style.

So why would we want to report someone who may be using a program to help them choose moves, presumably to get them banned? What benefit is that to any of us?

[nik592]

I really understand you, and of course I red thumbed him. Now, please, try to understand me: insta picking the cards is not humanly possible without some kind of external help. I don't know if that was AI, a bot, or whatever, and to tell the truth I don't care. I was just sharing my experienced with a very suspicious behaviour during a game.

Why is it not, if they don't care, if their connection was faster than yours? I don't typically find TM laggy, but I've been doing a draft at the same time as my husband and seen him get his card choices faster than me (he's on our main computer, I'm on my tablet sitting beside him). To me, it looks like instantly picking. There are scenarios where that legitimately happens. I can't say for certain what your opponent was doing, they could have been using an AI or bot, but insta picking cards is possible without that.

[expoolman]

If you are lagging on your end, and when your side eventually catches up the present it will seem as if your opponents are making multiple moves way too fast. Maybe that is what you are seeing.