Help me to improve 🙏

[RoyalRook]

https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=628631165

Against all conventional wisdom, I lost this one BADLY as Credicor playing all synergy 18 cards gen 9 with arctic algae viral enhancer GIA Deimo Ice Asteroid fish no city optimal ocean walk Gardener to security fleet AI UNMI and a relatively wasteful ecoline with 5 science tags but 16 plant prod.

It makes no sense right? What did I do wrong? Or this is just one of those dead upon arrival kinda deal? I played out my whole hand with not a single overbought but hit by virus and such.

[FrankJones]

Makes sense to me.

You had a terrible starting hand with garbage preludes. And you were playing against a 640 rated player.
I don't play 3-player much these days and I hate preludes, mainly because I hate getting trash preludes and watching other people play great aquifer, smelting plant, business empire, or acquired space agency and drawing two monster cards. 3-player with preludes goes, what, 9 generations? How good are preludes that give small levees of production of resources compared to the ones that come smashing out of the gate with 2 oceans, or 3 temperature bumps? (Thereby also giving heat production, obviously).

Your first two plays used much of your money, only to have your plants torched, which does not surprise me in a 3-player game. I don't expect early plants to survive long. All the plant killing cards are great card to play. I was surprised you did not keep Cupola city with starting energy and a plant engine.

Is GHG-Bacteria considered a good card? I usually trash that card when I use mars university. I would never keep it in my starting hand. By the time the oxygen is 4%, how many times will this card even get used? There's no guarantee it will even happen twice.

And then to make matters worse, your first draft had 4 bad or mediocre cards, which is rough in a 3-player game.

I'm not sure there was a whole lot you could do.

[BEANS115]

To be honest i think you messed up your starting hand quite a bit. Youre credicore so Galilean mining should be picked bc you want to play titanium cards anyway. As for the other preludes youre stuck with an energy bc business loan is unplayable so you definitely shouldve kept cupola. Not to mention youre going a little bit of plants so the city is nice. On top of that a floating enegy is just waiting to get tapped. I get ghg but personally i hate playing microbe bumpers bc theyre inconsistent and not good. So i wouldnt have kept it.

I also dont like your first draft. You should definitely keep lava tube settlement bc you have energy and theres a juicy spot on tharsis tholus. On top of that you can play your industrial center and start pumping steel prod. I also hate the sp ocean and greenery. The sp greenery made sense as credicore but to sp ocean first without a conversion is risky and inefficient. Besides you want oceans to come naturally with arctic algae so saving some mc and then passing is ideal.

Even the next couple gens, stop sping oceans. Its incredibly inefficient. You had the chance to deimos ecoline and did not, so instead you sp oceans and convert just to get gardener. To be honest, you spent way too much mc for gardener and it cost you the game. But 3 sp oceans into sp greenery convert is not the way to get gardener. Youre also not winning a tr race against unmi so that makes the strategy less viable.

Its gen 5, and you found imported hydrogen and ice asteroid. Sure wouldve been nice if you hadnt spd those oceans earlier and had a city card. Even if you passed twice without playing much, if you kept cupola you could play it on the right side get down ice asteroid, IH, get a couple conversions with rebates and be in a great spot. You couldve also played it on the southern side and take those rebates from ecoline. You also should prioritize deimos on your starting turn bc thats when ecoline has the most plants. Deimos early against ecoline is brutal and it really hurts them in the long run.

[Sonid]

If you take both energy preludes there you have to take Cupola city. The 2 titanium prod would've been better so you can play expensive space cards. Personally I think biofuels is the worst prelude in the game those starting plants are ALWAYS going to get removed before you can do something with them unless you're Ecoline with the first player token or you have protected habitats with the first player token.

Gen 2 was tough to watch. SP Ocean as credicor is a bad play so early in the game. Especially against Ecoline or other corps with high plant production. Save the credits for cities and just follow their forests or a big card in a later gen.

Gen 3 I'm surprised you skipped Methane from Titan, would've been a nice production bump and get a credicor refund.

Gen 4 had a good example of burning your credits early being punished. You beat them to Gardener but really gimped yourself to do it. Imagine the difference in the game at this point if you'd played Methane, Deimos down, and Viral Enahncers/Arctic Algae. Instead you have some unprotected forests and a milestone that Ecoline doesn't need cause they have 8 plant production anyway.

Just my thoughts, good luck in your games.

[FrankJones]

I just posited a long write-up of the game, and it disappeared!

I echoed and/or said everything the other two commenters said, and a few other things. Thermalist was brutal. I saw that backfiring the moment it as funded. (I had not seen the end-game awards scoring yet).

Have to use Cupola City. Have to use AAA. Wrong preludes. Standard project oceans, and then ended up using GIA for only one ocean. Couldn't get the bonus ocean despite having Deimos down.

The game could have ended on gen 8.

I just do not feel as though this game was designed well for 8-generation games. I was astounded to see some of the blue cards played so late, including some in gen-8, when it looked for sure as though it was only going to be an 8-gen game.

[RoyalRook]

Cupla and Titan would have slowed us way down. Without Gardner that's a 10 point swing. Sp Ocean is better with Arctic Algae. Those are just the basics. No you don't drop cities with credicor with this hand. Galilean Mining is a joke that's not even remotely viable here. The Thermolist fund is just maxing my points, the game wasn't win or lost b/c of it. It's 14 for 2 at worst. There is nothing that will score me better than taking gardener from Ecoline. There is no card that will give me 10 points for 8MC. I was trying to win. GHG pay me straight up for 11MC even if I just raise up heat once. It's cheaper than SP heat for 14 and gave me tags.

That's why I think this just wasn't a winnable game. When you lose to Security Fleet with Adv Alloy UNMI, that's just oh well. It's so bad that even say I get Terraformer and 10 extra MC I will still lose. Sometimes, AI and Ecoline just roll over your game. I know that, but this is almost too optimal for me to come in 3rd. I was surprised.

[FrankJones]

Cupla and Titan would have slowed us way down. Without Gardner that's a 10 point swing. Sp Ocean is better with Arctic Algae. Those are just the basics. No you don't drop cities with credicor with this hand. Galilean Mining is a joke that's not even remotely viable here. The Thermolist fund is just maxing my points, the game wasn't win or lost b/c of it. It's 14 for 2 at worst. There is nothing that will score me better than taking gardener from Ecoline. There is no card that will give me 10 points for 8MC. I was trying to win. GHG pay me straight up for 11MC even if I just raise up heat once. It's cheaper than SP heat for 14 and gave me tags.

That's why I think this just wasn't a winnable game. When you lose to Security Fleet with Adv Alloy UNMI, that's just oh well. It's so bad that even say I get Terraformer and 10 extra MC I will still lose. Sometimes, AI and Ecoline just roll over your game. I know that, but this is almost too optimal for me to come in 3rd. I was surprised.

Okay?

So, you weren't actually serious with your title of this post (which I suspected in the first place )

Rather, you were looking for lesser players to give silly advice which you could then mock and ridicule. I'm just messing with you! Sort of.

I appreciate your contributions to these forums. And, the ensuing discussion has value, regardless of the extent of agreement or disagreement. I'm not sure I agree that spending 14 credits to give yourself 2 points and someone else 5 points is a good play, but, well, in 3-player with preludes there often do not seem to be a lot of good plays. It mostly seems like, "play whatever cards you get and hope they're good enough to win", a strategy that results in comical outcomes in 2-player without prelude, which is my favorite

Yes, Gardener would have been a 10-point swing between you and the player who otherwise would have gotten it. And a 5 point swing against the 3rd player. But, there was the high cost of getting gardener. You had to spend the 8 credits; the other player did not. And of course, the numerous generally il-advised plays you had to make to get 3 greeneries in the first place. Those were plays you would never make in a different map with different milestones, so, as already stated, this was just the wrong hand with the wrong map. And it didn't help matters that you kept getting your plants and production attacked when usually Ecoline would be the target.

I agree that the Galilean Minnig is a lame prelude. But, I do think valid points have been made about some misplays. Do you think you played everything perfectly? If so, what was the point of this post? That 3-player with preludes is such a joke of a format that a 230 rated player can beat two players rated 530 and 640? If so, I would fully agree. I imagine a lot of 3-player games with preludes could be said to have been lost "from the start" because the winning player just had better cards and better situations.

Anyway, I think you're right; it went all wrong from the start. Wy didn't you play Earth Catapult in Gen 1? And don't give me any excuses about not having it in your hand. Find a way!

[RoyalRook]

I am serious about getting advice, b/c I feel like I was surprised. Things like this just doesn't happen. On paper, Credicor dominate with this setup, and I have done that many many times. But this time, even against suboptimal plays Credicor just wasn't able to score. I was hoping some top players would give this a look. The points I made this morning just a general check up list. Those should be solid, unless there is any disagreements, so we can talk about other points.

If someone 500+ can review it I would really appreciate it. I am not looking for oh had you wait on SP ocean you would have pick up deimo later. But rather any ways that I could have scored more in this game as the game was developing without knowing what's coming up.

[xspuipuke]

I had a look at this game from your perspective a few hours ago and I can only agree with what the others have said:

- Your SP oceans weren't optimal, as some of them didn't allow you to convert but left plants hanging, for which you were - rightfully - punished.
- Deimos against Ecoline's 12 plants would've been an instant choice for me - would get development and hinder theirs, but you went for the milestone, which only slowed you down, basically to a halt. The following 3 gens or so you were at like 20-something cash, unable to play Deimos or anything really.
- I agree with keeping Cupola and not keeping Biofuels.
- GHG producing bacteria was useless: you knew you had passed Ants; why would you keep and even play GHG?
- I would've kept and played Methane.
- Was it you passing Protected Valley? Don't remember what you kept instead, but that allowed Ecoline to secure the Southern ocean walk and steal a spot from you.

I think that's pretty much it.

[FrankJones]

I am serious about getting advice, b/c I feel like I was surprised. Things like this just doesn't happen. On paper, Credicor dominate with this setup, and I have done that many many times. But this time, even against suboptimal plays Credicor just wasn't able to score. I was hoping some top players would give this a look. The points I made this morning just a general check up list. Those should be solid, unless there is any disagreements, so we can talk about other points.

If someone 500+ can review it I would really appreciate it. I am not looking for oh had you wait on SP ocean you would have pick up deimo later. But rather any ways that I could have scored more in this game as the game was developing without knowing what's coming up.

Well, I am not 500+.

I am 486. in 70 games. I only started playing here in February. I accidentally created a non-draft game and got dealt trash the entire game, and lost.

In the other 70 games, in which I correctly selected draft, I have been beaten 4 times. My stats will show 65 wins and 5 losses, but one of those was an internet failure literally on the last gen of a game I was winning by 60 and was about to place the final ocean. So essentially, I am 66 wins and 4 losses. I also won 23 solo games in a row. I have won 35 pvp games in a row. I would welcome any advice in the 4 games I was beaten. I'm sure I made some mistakes.

I create open tables and play whoever joins, which has included a 550 rated player and several 400+ players. I do not just beat up on weaker players. I put my Elo at risk almost every game, where I often stand to win 2 points but lose 18.

I think that's enough to fudge the 14 points needed to respond to your request for help from 500+ players.

The only person in this thread who thinks you played optimally in you. Numerous mistakes have been pointed out. You said you got your money's worth on the GHG because you raised temperature once. Really? So, 11 MC to buy and play the card is worth getting a temperature bump 5 or 6 gens later? No way.

Maybe if you had not done that you could have used Deimos down more effectively, gotten the bonus ocean, and not overplayed your oceans and played GIA for one ocean.

Maybe, maybe, maybe. Mistakes compound and build on one another. You say the city would have slowed you down. What? You had the energy already. The city pays for itself in MC alone in 5-6 gens (taking into account that money now is worth more than money later, which you are not doing when you say GHG was a good play).

You somehow set yourself up to get smacked by plant attack cards when ecocline was in the game. You left microbes vulnerable to ants, animals vulnerable to predators, and plants vulnerable to space events. You spent most of your first few gens to get one milestone, doing little else and being constantly broke.

You funded an award that someone else won and then justified it by some odd logic. You really don't think you could have done better than spending 14 credits to get -3 points to the player who won the award?

Would it have made a difference? Maybe not. You got smoked. By a 200-rated player.

So, what are we saying here? This game is so streaky and luck-based that a low rated player can smash a high-rated player on pure luck of the draw? That doesn't say much for TFM as a game.

That said, I thought Ecoline played very well. That player is perhaps a true 500 player who just hasn't played a lot of games yet. Some of my tougher games have been against players rated sub-100 who obviously have a ton of experience but are just new to this site.

Anyway, you have gotten advice from some high-level players. You do not agree. That's fine - everyone's opinions here are valid, and we can all weigh the pros and cons of the various advice given.

If a 680-rated player gave the same advice, would you give it more weight? Maybe you've capped out at 530. Who knows? Back when I used to play on steam, I couldn't break through into the upper tier - I was in the top 2% of thousands of players, but could not break into that top 1%, because they were doing things that made me unable to beat them consistently, and I didn't bother to try to further improve to figure out why that was the case.